Diagnosis Found • Lab Testing Birds • New Developments

[Barrett Farm]

The coop has a roof and keeps the area dry. There is one area that has some discoloration that might be mold but the area is very open and they have plenty of fresh air.
The two black always roosted together in the center. The red stayed on the left side or the center and the lacy also roost on the left side.

I am sending my son to the feed store this morning. We will worm the lacy first. She is old and does not lay eggs. If she responds to treatment and confirms the diagnosis, I guess we treat them all? Do I need to treat the area they range?

Update:
I examined the bird this morning. I tried the QTip down the throat to bring up a worm to confirm the diagnosis. Her mouth is filled with phlegm or mucus. She sounds like she is having a hard time breathing. She has a large mass on the right side of her throat. The Qtips pulled out clear mucus and what looks like dirt or compost. Smell? the mucus does not smell but her breath smells sour. She passed a small drop of clear fluid from her vent or cloaca nothing green or white or formed. Her throat feels swollen or enlarged.

The mucus in the mouth, shaking head, head feather standing up, appetite but unable to eat, sour smell of breath, sleeping with head tucked in feathers, standing and sleeping through the day, loosing weight...all symptoms they have shared.

Can the mass in her throat be worms under the tissue?

 

[PunkinPeep]

If you are able to reasonably confirm that it's gape worm, i would definitely treat everyone.

I've not done it, but i'm told that you can put a q-tip down the throat of the chicken and swab the sides to check for gape worm also. The tiny worms are red and would show up on your swab.

 

[chickenlittleton]

I have been following your post and will continue to do so to see what the verdict is on your hens. I just wanted to comment on 2 things. If the diatomaceous earth is codex food grade, you should have no concerns. It is completely safe (for human consumption!) and will help control parasites internally, as well as fleas, lice, larvae,and a multitude of unpleasantries for our animals! I hope you are putting it in their feed.

The suspicious item you mention is the MULCH. Store bought bagged mulch is a gamble for sure! Toxic colorings & pesticides in the pretty stuff, and the "natural" mulch has molds, spores and fungus and mystery foreigners due to the moisture content in the bags. I've had real trouble and have sworn it off completely. Consider removing it from their area! Wishing you godspeed on the treatment of your sweet ladies!

 

[purpletree23]

I AGREE with chickenlittleton. If the DE is FOODGRADE (please make sure) it will not cause problems. I thought the bird seed was suspect but you did say that it will sprout if left on the ground. Good. It's untreated.

I believe the mulch is the problem. chickenlittleton is correct. Bagged store mulch can have anything in it. Over the years you've been consistent with everything else. Only the mulch has changed. It must have something to do with chemicals or dyes in the mulch or fungi or mold. The spores of both are so small you can't see them but the chickens are breathing them in and they get stuck on the natural moisture in the throat and to grow explosively they need warmth and moisture. The throat is the perfect environment.

The soft foods for the hen that survived a while could swallow without pain but then she just couldn't do it anymore.

The dark mucus you swabbed from the hen is probably loaded with whatever is killing them. Move the chickens to new quarters ASAP.

When you remove the mulch (if you agree with me) wear a high level filter mask and stay upwind as much as you can. Cover yourself well. Long pants, long sleeve shirt socks and boots and hat. Do it on a sunny breezy day and like I said stay upwind. If possible burn it in a location where the sun shines alot. After burning rake the ashes until they are spread VERY thin.

After the mulch is removed 'rough' up the soil everyday for a while. Let the sun and the fresh air and the cold weather do it's job of sanitizing. I don't think you will need chemicals. Spores dry up and are harmless unless activated again by 'perfect' conditions.

When you are done removing/burning the mulch undress in the garage and head straight for the shower. Using as little movement as possible get the cloths into the washing machine and wash in hot and dry on hot. If you want just throw away the clothes.

PM me if you have any questions. I hope this ends your troubles.

 

[Barrett Farm]

I sent my son down to the feed store. We bought a tube of Ivermax Equine Paste Dewormer for $5.95. I dosed off a lump of paste the size of a BB, put it on a Qtip and wiped it on the inside of the chicken's throat. Got that in and she did not shake it out. I chose this option because I have used this product for heartworm medication for our Great Danes. It is a very effective de wormer product and Ivermectin seems to be the most effective medication for Gapeworm. I checked on the hen after four hours and the lump appears to be smaller.

As for the yard...I raked up all the wood chips and mulch especially the bagged product. I don't think I can burn within city limits, high winds and spare the air days. I have much more bare dirt exposed. Most of the mulch was in the walkway area but I still got it up. I feel good that any remaining pieces are going to break down this winter.

Future treatments include the use of Rooster Booster which I ordered today. I bought the worming product, the Vit B & K product and the poultry booster. This with the DE in their feed will my attack for future outbreaks. I chose to wait to deworm the entire flock. They have DE in their food around the area they range and over all the scat they dropped last night.

I feel like we have some control over the situation and we should see improvement very soon!

Thank you for all your help. I will keep you posted on the Lacy Wyandotte's progress.

Jill Barrett

 

[purpletree23]

You have been very busy my friend! I like the fact that you are attacking this from all sides. Sending very good vibes your way and hoping for the best.

Keep us posted!

 

[Glenda L Heywood]

first if the bird had a growth in the mouth it was canker

and you need to give much more of the horse paste ivermectin as the whole tube is used for one horse
and it takes much more of it to worm a chicken than a size of a bb.

I would give it at least a 3/4 inch size piece of the paste ivermectin

I think that your dealing with something that is causing the birds to have a poisoning from something.

you can hope the ivermectin will help

actually it is best to use the cattle ivermectin and give 6 drops for large fowl

my friend Pam Hogan gives this info on using Ivermetin 1% water soluble

Dr. Ron Dickey, of Rogue River Veterinary Hospital, gave us the
following formula for worming with Ivomec, which is safe to use on
any bird, because it goes by the weight of the bird.

Use only 1% injectible cattle formula of Ivomec—not the pour-on.

Dilute the Ivomec 10 fold. Use 9 parts water or propylene glycol to
1 part 1% Ivomec. Use .1cc per lb. of body weight. For smaller
birds, dilute 20/1 and use 1cc per lb. of body weight.

If you are using water, Ivomec is not stable in water, so you have
to keep shaking it well before you draw a dosage. Ivomec is stable
in propylene glycol, and it works much better. You can buy a big
jug of it at most feedstores/farm supplies—it is used for pregnant
sheep, goats and cattle.

Ivomec is effective against internal parasites like trachea worm,
and also takes care of the external parasites. Levasole gets the
capillary worms and some others that the Ivomec doesn't get.
Pam Hogan

ANSWER
My friend Randy Henry did a lot of study on worming in his 17 yrs study on Veterinary
here is some of his usage of Ivermectin 1% soluble and 5% oil based

Also severl people use Ivomec wormer 1% water soluble
or 5% oil based and put on the neck skin of the bird.

Injectable 1% is
used inside the bird in injection or in the water also given down the throat
. And
5% oil based is used on the shoulder of the bird only. Not inside the birds mouth.

Directions for 5% ivomec with oil base put on shoulder
only not internally.
(1 1 drop small bantam such as female OE
(2 2 drops large bantam male like OE
(3 3 drops most bantams
(4 4 drops larger bantams and smaller commercial hens
(5 5 drops commercial large fowl and smaller large
fowl
(5 5 drops Large fowl chicken
(7 7 drops larger males of large fowl breeds of
Chickens.

(A 5% oil type Ivomec Stays on the birds for at least
6 weeks. and is the reason it is only used on the out
side under the feathers on the shoulder of the
chickens. Slow release time.

(B 1% water soulable is injectable and can be used in
the water. also given by mouth

THIS IS ON USING 1% IVERMECTIN IN THE WATER
WHICH IS NOT MY PREFERRED USE OF IT????
you have to treat 4 times a yr GLH


Iona wrote:
I leave treated water (4 cc per gallon of water) in the coops for 2
days. It is the only water so everyone drinks. I change the water
mixture every day and more often if it gets dirty. There is a great
margin for safety when using ivermectin so I don't worry about a bird
over dosing on it. I have been using injectable ivermectin mixed with
drinking water for 5 years now and have never had a problem.

I use the injectable 1 % solution mixed at 8 cc. per gallon of water to
treat canaries for air sac mites and to worm chickens, budgies,
canaries, cockatiels, etc. I take their water away the night before and
use this solution as the only source of water for 24 hours. It is
important to treat again in 10 days to get all the mites that have
hatched out since the treatment BEFORE they can lay eggs again. For
scaly face/leg mites I treat the birds at least four times.
To prevent heart worms and treat round and hook worms in dogs I use the
same 1% injectable diluted 14 cc. of ivermectin to 86 cc of propylene
glycol, administered orally once a month at a dosage rate of 1 cc for
every ten pounds body weight. This works very well for me, although I
would use caution in giving ivermectin to collies or collie crosses. I
have not had any problem with shetland sheepdogs or border collies, but
your results may vary.

Gail

ANSWER
My friend Nathalie Ross "threehorses" answered this on the
use of Ivermectin 5% put on the neck skin of the bird not on the feathers


Here is the low down on Ivermectin and epernix
Ivermectin does take 10 days not eating the eggsepernix is no with drawel time

Here is some information on the use of Ivemectin Products. I just wanted to help you out a little here.
From Nathalie Ross a friend of mine

First, despite what people advise, any pour on
ivermectin product shouldn't be used in
water. It's designed to be weatherproof for cattle and soak into external skin. It also needs to be given in a precise dosage so that you're getting what you pay for.

Both Ivermectin pour on and Eprinex-
Ivomec pour on are used the same, tho some people use Eprinex at a higher dosage with sucess. Eprinex of course is the 0 withdrawal product by Ivomec.

If you go with Ivermectin injectable, you'll also need
to buy propylene glycol to use with the injectable. By the time you do this, you've spent the same amount of money as the pour on with what I feel isn't the same level of effectiveness honestly, but some
people have access to injectable and not pour on so
it's an option.

For the pour on (5% oil) Ivermectin (not Eprinex) the dosage I
use is as follows:
1 drop - OEGB sized small bantam female
2 drops - OEGB sized small bantam male
3 drops - average bantams
4 drops - large bantams, small commercial fowl
5 drops - most commercial fowl, small giant hens
6 drops - giant breeds of chicken

I always use a 3 cc syringe that I just fill to about 2 cc's with a 20 gauge needle. The needle WON'T be injected into the chicken, but does make it easier to dispense a controlled correct sized drop. It also is easier to get in there between the feathers.

For location, you'll want to find an easy to reach
spot with as little fluff as possible. I've had the
best luck with the back of the neck when I am by myself. I just pick up the chicken in my left
hand, ruffle around the feathers with my right hand until I find a nice clear spot, then rotate the syringe around to dispense the drops exactly on the skin.

If you hit the fluff, it will soak in before
you can do anything and will be wasted. That stuff soaks in like lightening (which I discovered to my horror when I accidently got about 1 cc of it on me from the bottle - I'm worm free now!)

While you have the bird up, look them over. This is a great opportunity to nip things in the bud! Take advantage of it.

Generally I like to recommend that first time wormers use Piperazine (Wazine being the most common brand) before using Ivermectin the first time. This is a common practice with most livestockmen and women.

You use a less effective, less broad spectrum wormer first just in case there's a high load of roundworms. If there is a high load of roundworms and they're all killed at once, you risk either impaction or the bird having a reaction to the foreign proteins that the dead/stunned worms become.

The best way in my opinion of doing this is to worm with Piperazine in the water first - full strength 24 hours, then instead of following up in 10 days with piperazine, use the Ivomec Ivermectin or better yet Ivomec eprinex (for 0 withdrawal time).

Using this program, I worm once a year. Once I have wormed with ivermectin, I don't use piperazine again unless I do a second worming during the year or have
reason to suspect they've encountered a heavy level of parasites. In fact, I worm once a year almost exclusively.
I use tramisol as my second wormer if I have to (which is rare for me, even her in parasite ridden Texas).

Some people like to use a daily preventative like DE
between wormings. Some confusion comes when people call DE (Diatomaceous Earth) a wormer; it's not. It's an aid to preventing small dosages of worms, the small batches that your birds will pick up daily. It's not good at killing larger batches of worms however.

BUT it's natural and, if you use the codex food grade DE, it's quite effective and can even be spread in the bedding and on the birds to help ward off mites and feather lice.

It won't hurt anything if the other animals pick it up, either. You just use it less than
2% in your feed, or in the free choice box for your usual oyster shell, etc.

I hope this has helped you to understand a little
about ivermectin and how to get the most out of it.
It's a super wormer and will do
right by you if you keep its proper use and design in mind!

Good luck with your flocks!
Nathalie Ross, Houston, TX

email me any questions

 

[Barrett Farm]

The Ivermax paste I administered or the DE I added to the feed has begun to work.

I read on a post to use the size of a BB if you use the paste and I calculated that to be correct. The entire tube doses a 1250lb horse. Each increment on the dosing syringe covers 25lbs. One quarter of that dose, approximately the size of a large BB would dose a 6lb chicken. The only hen of the flock that I treated with Ivermectin was hanging out in one area of the yard and I found a cecal dropping with one dead worm. It appears to be a roundworm, 2 inches long, 1mm in diameter with pointed tips, no hooks, no segments. The hen is huddled in the corner. The very large growth inside her mouth, at the back or base of her tongue, that I found yesterday has changed from white in color to a dark almost black. I cleaned out her throat this morning hoping to find gapeworms but found lots of straw material.

I forced her to take some barley baby cereal with 2 scoops of baby formula watered down with whole milk fed with a syringe. She was mildly interested at first and took some freely but I had to force her to eat.

The treated hen is walking around the yard. She wipes her beak constantly. I find her eating small pieces of food around feeder, perhaps she is picking up grit. She's tired, she's old she has a very large growth in her throat, we won't know what it is until she dies and we perform a necropsy.

 

[Barrett Farm]

I had to find out what was blocking her throat.

Some of the growth would break off (it smells) and I could retrieve it. It looks like the matter I found once in the laying box. It is firm and spongy and has some air pockets in it.

I hope removing some of this growth will help her feel more comfortable so she can eat. If not...

 

[chickenlady]

That yellowish stuff from her throat looks like the stuff you would find in an infection in a chicken. Almost like yellowish hardened cottage cheese. Can you see the area on the throat you are swabbing? could she have a cut in there that has gotten infected?

Also thinking she could be suffering from something fungal/yeast growth. Aspergillosis causes all the symptoms you are mentioning. They aren't eating because of sores in the throat. Purpletree 23 hit the nail on the head with that one. As with any fungal infection, the normal antibiotics out there will worsen the problem. Ensure they have fresh water daily and you can put a little bleach in it which will kill any germs. I believe I have a chicken going through the exact same thing you are mentioning. Been fighting it off for 3 months now. Have been keeping it at bay so far and it has not progressed. I started out with 10 days of penicillin and he seemed to be getting better. When I took him off it, the symptoms flared up again. But at least my bird is now eating when fed. Sometimes he even has a very full crop, something that was not happening for a while. He is now on nystatin for fungal infections. Today is only day 2 for him so I have not seen major improvements yet but am hopeful.

Aspergillosis is not contagious itself but if the cause of it is not taken care of, any chicken can get it.