Diary & Notes ~ Air Cell Detatched SHIPPED Chicken Eggs for incubation and hatching

[sumi]

My hens always hatch them laying on their sides

and one lovely hen gave me 100% hatch rates 3 times in a row (I miss her

)

Drowning I know is caused by too high humidity for too long. I had one weird case where one egg was in exactly the wrong place in the incubator and got the moisture rising from the water bowl. Perhaps I should add it was a very badly thought out home made 'bator...

 

[Sally Sunshine]

Pipped eggs that do not hatch
If chick embryos develop to the pipping stage, or at first shell cracking at hatching, they are normally healthy enough to hatch unless some incubator adjustment prevents it from happening. The problem is usually caused by either 1) poor ventilation or 2) improper humidity.

The air exchange requirement within an incubator is greatest during the last day of incubation. The chick embryo's oxygen requirement continually increases during development and especially when breathing using the respiratory system just before hatching. The vent openings are frequently restricted at this time in an attempt to boost incubator humidity. Instead of helping the chick hatch, the chick is suffocated from lack of ventilation. Never decrease ventilation openings at hatching in an attempt to increase humidity. Increase humidity by other methods. If any vent adjustments are made, they should be opened more.

Another reason for mortality during hatching is improper humidity adjustment. The deaths can be produced from too much humidity during the entire incubation period or from too little humidity during the hatching period.

The desired egg weight loss during incubation caused by water evaporation is about 12 percent. If humidity during incubation is kept too high, adequate water evaporation from the egg is prevented. The chick can drown in the water remaining in the shell at hatching. A dried coating around the chick's nostrils and beak indicates that drowning was likely. Attention to maintaining proper incubation humidity during incubation will reduce the potential for this problem at hatching time.
If the humidity is allowed to decrease after the chick pips the shell, the membranes within the shell can dry-out and stick to the chick. This prevents the chick from turning inside the shell and stops the hatching process. The chick eventually dies. If the membranes around the shell opening appear dried and shrunken, the cause is probably low humidity during hatching. This condition can occur quickly (within 1 or 2 minutes) when the incubator is opened to remove or assist other chicks that are hatching. When hatching begins and proper incubator conditions are attained, the incubator should never be opened until after all chicks are hatched and ready for placement in the brooder. http://msucares.com/poultry/reproductions/poultry_pipped.html


https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/458759/how-to-tell-if-a-chick-drowns Per Gypsy: Chicks dying during incubation because of excess humidity is NOT the same thing as chicks drowning. It's a very badly misused term. An embryo can fail to develop and die at any stage of the incubation. And excess humidity can be the cause of the embryo dying. But a chick can only drown AFTER it has pipped internally into the air cell and started trying to breathe air. If there is excess fluid in the egg at this time, the chick can inhale it and drown. But before it pips into the air sac, it isn't breathing air, so how could it drown?

So a chick that has drowned will have pipped internally into the air cell. It might also have pipped the shell. If you're doing carton hatching I think it would be quite easy to see. Break a small hole through the shell into the air cell and have a look. If it has broken through to the air cell then drowning is a possibility. Tip the egg up and see if any fluid drips out. At this stage of development and hatching, there should be almost no liquid left in the egg so if fluid drips out, the chick most likely did drown. I think a chick that drowned could have either an unabsorbed yolk sac or an almost totally absorbed one, depending on whether it drowned immediately after breaking through to the air sac, or after 12 hours of resting and absorbing the yolk. That is definitely possible, depending on the positioning of the egg. Also even with lots of fluid in the egg, the chick might be lucky and not drown. If it manages to keep its beak above the fluid, it can still hatch okay.

A chick that hasn't pipped internally into the air cell has NOT drowned. It may have died during incubation due to excess humidity conditions, but technically, it has not drowned. So do the same thing and have a look in the egg. If the chick looks almost fully developed but it hasn't broken through to the air sac, break the egg open into a bowl and see if it looks like there is a lot of excess fluid. The more fully developed the chick is, the less fluid there should be.

HOW THE CHICK EMERGES FROM THE SHELL http://chickscope.beckman.uiuc.edu/resources/egg_to_chick/procedures.html
The head of the chick develops at the large end of the egg. Between the 15th and 16th days, the chick orients itself so that its head is near the air cell at the large end of the egg. Not long before the chick is ready to attempt to make its way out of the shell its neck acquires a double bend so that its beak is under its right wing and pointed toward the air cell. About the 19th day the chick thrusts its head forward. Its beak quickly breaks through the inner shell membrane, and the chick's lungs begin to function. Complete breathing by the lungs usually does not occur until the 20th day of incubation.
Using its egg tooth (a tiny, sharp, horny projection on the end of its beak), the chick pecks at the shell thousands of times. Finally, the young bird pips its way through the shell and begins to breathe air directly from the outside. After the chick has made a hole in the shell, it stops pipping for three to eight hours and rests. During this time, it is acclimating its lungs to the outside atmosphere. After the resting stage is completed, the second stage of pipping begins.
The chick begins to turn slowly inside the egg. As it turns, usually counter-clockwise, the cutting edge of the chick tooth continues to chip away. In two to five hours, the chick has made about three quarters of a turn inside the egg. As the chick progresses in its movement around the shell, it begins pushing on the egg cap (large end). Squirming and struggling, the chick works feverishly for about 40 minutes pushing at the cap. Finally with a vigorous shove, the chick breaks free from the shell, still wet and panting.
When the chick is freed completely from the shell, it lies still. Its energy has been virtually exhausted, and it is extremely tired. After a rest of some few minutes, the chick begins to rise to its feet and gain coordination of its muscles. Within a few days the egg tooth, its usefulness over, will disappear.

After 21 days of incubation, the chick finally begins its escape from the shell. The chick begins by pushing its beak through the air cell. The allantois, which has served as its lungs, begins to dry up as the chick uses its own lungs. The chick continues to push its head outward. The sharp horny structure on the upper beak (egg tooth) and the muscle on the back of the neck help cut the shell. The chick rests, changes position, and keeps cutting until its head falls free of the opened shell. It then kicks free of the bottom portion of the shell. The chick is exhausted and rests while the navel openings heal and its down dries. Gradually, it regains strength and walks. The incubation and hatching is complete. The horny cap will fall off the beak within days after the chick hatches.http://msucares.com/poultry/reproductions/poultry_chicks_embryo.html

After the chick has made a hole in the shell, it stops pipping for three to eight hours and rests. During this time, it is acclimating its lungs to the outside atmosphere. After the resting stage is completed, the second stage of pipping begins....

The chick begins to turn slowly inside the egg. As it turns, usually counter-clockwise, the cutting edge of the chick tooth continues to chip away. In two to five hours, the chick has made about three quarters of a turn inside the egg. As the chick progresses in its movement around the shell, it begins pushing on the egg cap (large end). Squirming and struggling, the chick works feverishly for about 40 minutes pushing at the cap. Finally with a vigorous shove, the chick breaks free from the shell, still wet and panting.
When the chick is freed completely from the shell, it lies still. Its energy has been virtually exhausted, and it is extremely tired. After a rest of some few minutes, the chick begins to rise to its feet and gain coordination of its muscles. Within a few days the egg tooth, its usefulness over, will disappear. (http://chickscope.beckman.uiuc.edu/resources/egg_to_chick/procedures.html)

If you feel he may be SHRINK wrapped (only YOU know what your cells, weight, and Humidity have been) maybe you should start reading how to help a chick...... I have watched a ton of videos on youtube and its done all the time with no problems and HAS SAVED many HEALTHY chicks!! PROOF on all those videos!

"Shrink wrap" vs. "Sticky chick"? https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/491421/shrink-wrap-vs-sticky-chick#post_6242987

 

[sumi]

Very interesting!

 

[Overoberyl]

I think if you're feeling your air cells are too large it is unlikely that there is an excess of fluid in the egg. If there were, the air cells would look too small...

 

[Sally Sunshine]

LOL no I meant too small cells oops!!

NOTES: I just READ myself into more worry!!! Now I WILL NOT OPEN THAT BATOR AND LAY THEM DOWN, they are in lockdown so I will try to hatch upright this time.....I WILL NOT UP THE HUMIDITY UNTIL I SEE an EXTERNAL PIP!!

I must add this.....

Shrink wrapped: before pipping, both inner and out membranes dry tight around the chick; caused by too little humidity throughout incubation

Sticky chick: after pipping, the liquids dry becoming glue-like followed by concrete-like; caused by too little humidity during lockdown

Wet sticky or Swollen: the chick is swollen with water or simply very wet and sticky; caused by too high humidity throughout incubation

Drowning: the whitish outer membrane is dry while the clearish inner membrane is wet, binding the chick; also caused by too high humidity thoughout incubation

*Chicks experiencing more than one of the extreme conditions can exhibit multiple issues.
*These same issues can also occur during natural incubation, under a brooding hen.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/491421/shrink-wrap-vs-sticky-chick#post_6242987

 

[Sally Sunshine]

Egg Internal Pip - See Gosling peck at the shell from the inside via candling

 

[Overoberyl]

LOL no I meant too small cells oops!!

NOTES: I just READ myself into more worry!!! Now I WILL NOT OPEN THAT BATOR AND LAY THEM DOWN, they are in lockdown so I will try to hatch upright this time.....I WILL NOT UP THE HUMIDITY UNTIL I SEE an EXTERNAL PIP!!

I must add this.....

Shrink wrapped: before pipping, both inner and out membranes dry tight around the chick; caused by too little humidity throughout incubation

Sticky chick: after pipping, the liquids dry becoming glue-like followed by concrete-like; caused by too little humidity during lockdown

Wet sticky or Swollen: the chick is swollen with water or simply very wet and sticky; caused by too high humidity throughout incubation

Drowning: the whitish outer membrane is dry while the clearish inner membrane is wet, binding the chick; also caused by too high humidity thoughout incubation

*Chicks experiencing more than one of the extreme conditions can exhibit multiple issues.
*These same issues can also occur during natural incubation, under a brooding hen.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/491421/shrink-wrap-vs-sticky-chick#post_6242987

Yeah I know there is too much fluid in mind since I candled them last night and I can see fluid. So I am just telling myself this set was a bust and on to the next one. If any hatch, bonus. I did read on a thread that if you put a bowl of rice in the incubator it will help absorb the moisture and may shrink the air cells. The person who suggested this did it and said the air cells shrunk in the first two days of lockdown thanks to doing this. I decided to try it last night but as the humidity dropped the temp went up and I think my eggs got cooked

So, I'm pretty sure they are all dead now anyway.

 

[Sally Sunshine]

OH Crud!!!!

 

[Overoberyl]

I know, I can't win for losing, lol. I did just candle one and had movement, but no way to know if they are doing ok or not...moving on!!

 

[Sally Sunshine]

I know, I can't win for losing, lol. I did just candle one and had movement, but no way to know if they are doing ok or not...moving on!!

you could see the water in the air cell when u candled?? should I go check mine ya think??? I didnt notice any but should I???? I see no pips yet????????????????