Difficult! Silver wheaten questions for genetics experts!
- Thread starter gallorojo
- Start date
As I stated elsewhere: Cubalayas are not typical Wheaten as in other Orientals; nor are they typical Wheaten as seen in OEG.
This is most readily seen in the female. She is described as a cinammon color throughout (excepting black in the flights and tail: Columbian). I prefer to use the description: 'burnt brick red' as that seems to make more sense to folks than 'cinammon.'
Also, to get the male to have the fiery golden coloration where the hackle overlaps the shoulders there needs to be white in the flights of the mother.
Another thing: Almost every female seen will have black stripping in the hackle. The hen I posted in the profile of the BBR Hen is one of the few I have ever seen that didn't have the stripping. Sam Brush said once to me that he has only seen 2 or 3 in his 30+ years of breeding Cubalayas.
I have only bred them for 15 years. In that time I have only seen the lack of hackle stripping in the female once: on this female. That would be out of around 1250-1500 Cubalaya chicks hatched.
By the way, I do have Golden hackled females as well as the Silver. However, I use them as regular BBR (Wheaten) hens.
Here's one beside a Blue Cubalaya:
Silver Cock
Here's the best type of breeding female (lots of smut):
This is most readily seen in the female. She is described as a cinammon color throughout (excepting black in the flights and tail: Columbian). I prefer to use the description: 'burnt brick red' as that seems to make more sense to folks than 'cinammon.'
Also, to get the male to have the fiery golden coloration where the hackle overlaps the shoulders there needs to be white in the flights of the mother.
Another thing: Almost every female seen will have black stripping in the hackle. The hen I posted in the profile of the BBR Hen is one of the few I have ever seen that didn't have the stripping. Sam Brush said once to me that he has only seen 2 or 3 in his 30+ years of breeding Cubalayas.
I have only bred them for 15 years. In that time I have only seen the lack of hackle stripping in the female once: on this female. That would be out of around 1250-1500 Cubalaya chicks hatched.
By the way, I do have Golden hackled females as well as the Silver. However, I use them as regular BBR (Wheaten) hens.
Here's one beside a Blue Cubalaya:
Silver Cock
Here's the best type of breeding female (lots of smut):
yes this is most intriguing, wonder why nobody is doing a cubalaya wheaten x normal wheaten cross to see what else segregates, or doing outcross to wildtype to see dominance
Cubalaya carry gene(s) that make them darker than other wheaten. If that is not the case then they may have different DNA in the promoter region upstream from the gene. Kimball isolated a gene he called dark Dk*Dk from cubalaya. He attributed the dark wheaten to this gene. The dark gene also darkened wild type. He also isolated the dark gene from Faverolles.
The E locus allele E*Wh and the E*Y allele are one in the same; they both code for the same amino acid sequence found in the trans-membrane protein. They are one in the same. Other genetic factors are causing the dark wheaten found in oriental games. It could be a dominant gene or other genetic stuff.
Tim
The E locus allele E*Wh and the E*Y allele are one in the same; they both code for the same amino acid sequence found in the trans-membrane protein. They are one in the same. Other genetic factors are causing the dark wheaten found in oriental games. It could be a dominant gene or other genetic stuff.
Tim
Truly the expression of wheaten in the female does make them darker. Interesting is the fact that this is not the case in the male.
Plenty of crosses have occured through the years between Cubalaya wheaten and regular Oriental wheaten. The result is a lighter female and a male with a much darker hackle and saddle: in other words, the regular Oriental wheaten dominates.
Plenty of crosses have occured through the years between Cubalaya wheaten and regular Oriental wheaten. The result is a lighter female and a male with a much darker hackle and saddle: in other words, the regular Oriental wheaten dominates.
thts what I was thinking too, just look at the Silver Wheaten hen, she looks like your everyday gold wheaten hen, yet the silver wheaten rooster is still silver.. this leads me to the conclusion that their natural salmon color is enhanced independently of their s sex locus or is triggered by sex hormones leaving the boys unenhanced
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In chickens the male coloration is the default color and the female color is due to the presence of estrogen in the skin. In other words the males color is not due to male hormones but due to the absence of female hormones. The basic plumage color wheaten is highly variable in females and I believe this is due to genes that are modifying the wheaten basic plumage color. It could also be a promoter that is different. And then you can have different combinations of a gene and a promoter. Lots of possibilities.
Take for example salmon faverolle, both the male and the female express red or wheaten in their plumage and they are silver wheaten. The wheaten color in the silver female would be black but the wheaten allele prevents the production of black on the body therefore the wheaten color stays. The wheaten color is due to the wheaten allele in the silver female. The gold allele enhances the wheaten color caused by the wheaten alelle ( remember black is converted to wheaten) when you remove the gold and replace it with silver the wheaten color stays and the silver fills in where the gold was located causing a reduction in wheaten color.
In columbian restricted wheaten and silver birds, the body is silver because what would normally be black (wheaten on wheaten females) is converted to white. The columbian gene normally removes black and since the wheaten color is produced through a pathway that normally produces black, the columbian gene stops the production of the wheaten color. You have to think of the wheaten color as being converted from black.
Tim
Take for example salmon faverolle, both the male and the female express red or wheaten in their plumage and they are silver wheaten. The wheaten color in the silver female would be black but the wheaten allele prevents the production of black on the body therefore the wheaten color stays. The wheaten color is due to the wheaten allele in the silver female. The gold allele enhances the wheaten color caused by the wheaten alelle ( remember black is converted to wheaten) when you remove the gold and replace it with silver the wheaten color stays and the silver fills in where the gold was located causing a reduction in wheaten color.
In columbian restricted wheaten and silver birds, the body is silver because what would normally be black (wheaten on wheaten females) is converted to white. The columbian gene normally removes black and since the wheaten color is produced through a pathway that normally produces black, the columbian gene stops the production of the wheaten color. You have to think of the wheaten color as being converted from black.
Tim
Henk69
Crowing
Do you have more about this?
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Faverolle are red enhanced silver, the males shows this, but on silver wheaten cubas the males are Silver right?
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