Diluters of Black: Blue, Chocolate, Dun, Lavender

[wcbpolish]

I have a question about the inheritance of diluters... here are several things that I have heard in places about these diluters:

*Breeding Lavender to Lavender in the long run damages feather quality
*The only way to improve blues is to breed to blues or blacks
*If you always breed blue to blue, they will get lighter
*One should not breed a black out of blue line into blacks
*One should not breed a black out of a cuckoo line back into blacks

It seems that birds that come out of families with diluted colors would be MORE LIKELY to carry color faults that would show up in their black prodigy, but the folks who tell me related things seem to imply that it is the diluter (blue, cuckoo, etc) that CAUSES them. This confuses me, because either the gene is there, or it is not. If it is not there (bird is black), the diluter should not have an impact on future generations, right? Other "hidden" genes might be the cause, but it should not be the diluter itself...

And how can the expression of the diluter gene change by the continual breeding of diluted birds to diluted birds?

I have a degree in biology and I think that I understand genetics fairly well... so this stumps me. The only thing that I can compare it to some human diseases that come from sections of DNA with excessive repeats... that tend to acquire even more copies of the same repeat in future generations, thus getting worse (stronger expression) in future generations.

Any other commentary of the genetics of diluters would be fine in this thread as well.

For the record, I have white crested polish- Blue, Black, Cuckoo, and hopefully Chocolate(Dun) in the near future.

 

[nicalandia]

I have a question about the inheritance of diluters... here are several things that I have heard in places about these diluters:

*Breeding Lavender to Lavender in the long run damages feather quality
*The only way to improve blues is to breed to blues or blacks
*If you always breed blue to blue, they will get lighter
*One should not breed a black out of blue line into blacks
*One should not breed a black out of a cuckoo line back into blacks

It seems that birds that come out of families with diluted colors would be MORE LIKELY to carry color faults that would show up in their black prodigy, but the folks who tell me related things seem to imply that it is the diluter (blue, cuckoo, etc) that CAUSES them. This confuses me, because either the gene is there, or it is not. If it is not there (bird is black), the diluter should not have an impact on future generations, right? Other "hidden" genes might be the cause, but it should not be the diluter itself...

And how can the expression of the diluter gene change by the continual breeding of diluted birds to diluted birds?

I have a degree in biology and I think that I understand genetics fairly well... so this stumps me. The only thing that I can compare it to some human diseases that come from sections of DNA with excessive repeats... that tend to acquire even more copies of the same repeat in future generations, thus getting worse (stronger expression) in future generations.

Any other commentary of the genetics of diluters would be fine in this thread as well.

For the record, I have white crested polish- Blue, Black, Cuckoo, and hopefully Chocolate(Dun) in the near future.

Your observations are quite valid and I understand the confusion, but most of this only applies to the autosomal blue diluting gene(Bl/bl+) when breeding blue to blue the dilution effects accumulates and the birds get lighter in color, as for breeding blacks our of cuckoo line to a line of pure black should not be an issue at all, since the only difference between the cuckoo pattern and black is the barring gene all other gens are the same.

 

[wcbpolish]

Your observations are quite valid and I understand the confusion, but most of this only applies to the autosomal blue diluting gene(Bl/bl+) when breeding blue to blue the dilution effects accumulates and the birds get lighter in color, as for breeding blacks our of cuckoo line to a line of pure black should not be an issue at all, since the only difference between the cuckoo pattern and black is the barring gene all other gens are the same.

How does it accumulate? I'm not arguing, I just don't understand. Some sort of epigenetic business?

 

[smoothmule]

I have been looking for large Fowl Dun Polish since 2012.

 

[wcbpolish]

I have been looking for large Fowl Dun Polish since 2012.

Dun as in what we call Chocolate, correct?
White Crested Chocolate (Dun) is getting pretty common. I picked up a trio last season. Have some other Chocolate (Dun) birds with crests and 5 toes running around too.

 

[Chickenosauurs_RexNo54]

WHere could I find some of these Polish? I haven't even heard of this variety of Polish anywhere. I have only heard of Tolbunt, WC Black, WC Blue, BC White, Splash, Blue, Black, WHite, Cuckoo, Candy corn, Red, Buff-laced, Golden - laced, Silver laced, Bantam, Bantam frizzle, and bantam frizzle.

Dun as in what we call Chocolate, correct?
White Crested Chocolate (Dun) is getting pretty common. I picked up a trio last season. Have some other Chocolate (Dun) birds with crests and 5 toes running around too.

Where could I find some of these Polish?I hadn't even heard of this variety of Polish anywhere . I have only heard of Tolbunt, WC Black, WC Blue, Splash, WHite, Cuckoo, Candy corn, BC White, Red, BUff laced, BUff, Golden laced, Silver laced, Black, Blue, BAntsm Polish, Frizzle, and Bantam frizzle.