Discussion of Legbar Standard of Perfection for -Alternative- Legbars - SOP discussion

[flyingmonkeypoop]

Glad you brought this up - I didn't see it before.  

If you are thinking that the match to 100% gold Leghorn should depict Crele Legbar - then it is a gold Legbar plus crest and blue eggs......  It seems to me that not everyone wants to go that gold...but it is an option of course.... We would then just copy the Gold Legbar UK standard in its entirety and add crest and blue eggs to that SOP, then translate the wording to APA lingo.

Spot on about the ease of writing the coloration of the White recessive--- providing that 1. The autosexing will continue for many generations and  2. Enough people have an interest.  

I see Crele as not Gold Legbar Gold, but rather the Legbars that were kicked out of Legbar land and their owners told they were "mutts" due to coloration......Would you expect the brown (gold) wing triangle show in the diagram on the new variety?  If the ones on the chart that are in the bottom row are 'true Cream' -  - and the Rees line at GFF is toward the ideal CL, then perhaps the middle row is Crele.  

Jill Rees line is on the the Cream Legbar Club Website - History of the CL in the USA as well as on Greenfire Farms website.

People who didn't want to have that exact Rees line look and had invested themselves in Cream Legbars were the beginning of the push-back.  

With the recent UK winner - it seems that the CLs are a bit moderated from the ones that looked like as someone once said 'a substandard BPR' - I guess that was 'touche' for having their own CLs called mutts.  LOL -- all in good humor mind you.


This also brings up two points to ponder....  1. Not everone's ideal CL will be THE standard...the idea of Crele is to expand the gene pool pretty dramatically IMO  and still retain the original look that is so distinctive for a Cream Legbar-  2. What about the chickens that are truly boarder-line regarding such things as secondaries...  Returns to the question posed at the State Fair "how much chestnut (referring to the 'some chestnut allowed') is allowable before the judge will start to deduct points...there are some areas that are (pardon my pun) shades of gray. 

I don't like the color of the gold legbar male but the hen color is similar to what I am seeing. Another thing to consider is if people would want matching saddle and hackle.
About the various shades inbetween and such- if we all decide on a specific look like the 50% pair as what we all like, then we need to come up with wording for it so we can breed towards it. The birds that are in the border region as you said would end up as culls because people should breed to a standard in one way or another. The variety has to be different enough so (not to be mean) if we start planning the proposed standard that is more washed out looking, we'll be wasting our time when it comes up for APA acceptance.

One thing I would like to see if others agree on is the darker wingbow on males. Not mahogany color but maybe matching the orange saddle color.

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

After looking at the gold legbar/crele leghorn pic posted, I like the males sadddle/wingbow color. If his barring was more gray and his hackle was lighter, that would be my ideal coloring amd his wingbow needs to be much lighter as well.

 

[ChicKat]

After looking at the gold legbar/crele leghorn pic posted, I like the males sadddle/wingbow color. If his barring was more gray and his hackle was lighter, that would be my ideal coloring amd his wingbow needs to be much lighter as well.

Thanks M.

that does clarify it - And I think that saddle-hackle non-match is also a good indicator to have the variety different.

Am I grasping correctly - Wing-triangle (secondaries) similar to saddle feathers - (that could also be written into the cream one - I guess if they have ultra-light wing-triangle and light saddles..).

What is your take on having 3 colors in the secondaries versus only gray in different shades in the different varieties?
Also - using the crele Leghorn illustrations - they seem to have a distinctive B&W in the barring -

Any thoughts on how best to resolve people's different preferences?

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

There are folks out there with 'crele' wyandottes and rocks that show pencilling because they used partridge instead of wildtype.

As someone with a different way of viewing the world, I find it easy to envision new colors and patterns in a breed. Back in 2004 when I decided I wanted legbars and was going to make my own, I already envisioned what they would look like. When started making them, I wanted to make a fifty-five flowery as well (autosexing breed; legbar pattern plus mottling made almost solid white males and splotchy females) but then legbars were imported. I then planned to continue the 55 flowery project using legbars and anconas but then GFF imported some (then wrote up a false story about this being the first time the breed has been in the US) so I gave up for now.
The ease of chicken breeding and the genes available are what make it so easy and fun to come up with new things. I have thought about lavender legbars and other things. I guess one way to put how I feel into words is to say that the reason for doing something like this is because in some cases, the breed and color don't match up. Like the crele phoenix I did before and am remaking. I love the look of the phoenix type but I love the crele color so I made it happen. Or way back when I made dun laced wyandotte bantams- I enjoyed the round bodies of wyandotte bantams, I loved the color dun but not solid dun so I made dun laced.

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

Thanks M. 

that does clarify it - And I think that saddle-hackle non-match is also a good indicator to have the variety different.

Am I grasping correctly - Wing-triangle (secondaries) similar to saddle feathers - (that could also be written into the cream one - I guess if they have ultra-light wing-triangle and light saddles..).

What is your take on having 3 colors in the secondaries versus only gray in different shades in the different varieties?
Also - using the crele Leghorn illustrations - they seem to have a distinctive B&W in the barring - 

Any thoughts on how best to resolve people's different preferences?  

I went back and edited in the last part to say lighter wing triangle but realize I mistyped it. I like your picture of the wing triangle not wing bow, lol. I like the tri colored wings.

Not sure about how to resolve it other than telling people how it is. If we go for a golder/crele then people can choose to go lighter with the creams or darker with the crele. It is almost the same as if the type called for a short tail and short legs but we were making a medium tailed medium legged version and birds could easily be bred to one type or another but some people wanted inbetween legs which just wouldn't make sense because they could do one or the other.
Personally, the only issue I see will be female color. Based on pics I can see that we all prefer the same color in the males which is a good thing

 

[chicken pickin]

@flyingmonkeypoop I noticed your Rose Combed cockerel listed on RBA. I wish you luck finding him a good home and at a good bid.

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

@flyingmonkeypoop
 I noticed your Rose Combed cockerel listed on RBA. I wish you luck finding him a good home and at a good bid.

Thanks! He is a spare and not as good as his brothers. I figure he will be a good start for someone that wants to work on them. I figure locally I'd get $5 for him as a live bird. As a pelt he would sell for maybe $40

 

[chicken pickin]

Thanks! He is a spare and not as good as his brothers. I figure he will be a good start for someone that wants to work on them. I figure locally I'd get $5 for him as a live bird. As a pelt he would sell for maybe $40

What a great idea. I never thought of selling as a pelt? Is there a decent market for that?

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

What a great idea. I never thought of selling as a pelt? Is there a decent market for that?

There is if you do it right. Most average pelts just go for $10-20 but legbars are what is called 'cree' in fly tying terms. They prefer the 'colored' legbar type over the cream or plain barred.
You just have to know how to market everything. Ideally when a rooster is culled and everything is right- the skull gets cleaned by dermestid beetles and sold, the bird is skinned/washed/dried/treated to be sold as a pelt, the meat is canned or dried (chicken jerkey for the dogs), the organs and such go to a maggot feeder for the other chickens, and the bones and everything else gets crunched down for the compost pile.

 

[sol2go]

There is if you do it right. Most average pelts just go for $10-20 but legbars are what is called 'cree' in fly tying terms. They prefer the 'colored' legbar type over the cream or plain barred.
You just have to know how to market everything. Ideally when a rooster is culled and everything is right- the skull gets cleaned by dermestid beetles and sold, the bird is skinned/washed/dried/treated to be sold as a pelt, the meat is canned or dried (chicken jerkey for the dogs), the organs and such go to a maggot feeder for the other chickens, and the bones and everything else gets crunched down for the compost pile.

applied principle of waste not want not...

I just enjoy the colorful "crele" legbars and think the pattern looks well on their body type. If more color provides more options for the extra roosters that are inevitable, that is helpful.