Discussion of Legbar Standard of Perfection for -Alternative- Legbars - SOP discussion

[chicken pickin]

on the last male I posted he is Lavender columbian, not cream and lavender together, such bird would be almost entirely white..

Thank you for clarifying.

By just looking at his physical appearance the colors I am seeing seem cream on the body and lavender in the tail, I thought the colors looked nice together is all.

 

[nicalandia]

Thank you for clarifying.

By just looking at his physical appearance the colors I am seeing seem cream on the body and lavender in the tail, I thought the colors looked nice together is all.

yes he does, looks quite nice..

 

[dretd]

Does anyone have a 1950's (almost the 60's) image of a Leghorn from UK?


Punnett quote from 1957:

" it may be described as a Brown Leghorn on a cream basis, to which has been added the barring factor causing it to be autosexing. It is also creasted and lays a blue egg"

Quote:
I am woefully behind, but wanted to clarify the back SOP descriptions, as I think its important.

British CL standard
male back: "Back long, flat and sloping slightly to the tail"
female back: "General characteristics are similar to those of the male...the tail should be carried closely and not at such a high angle"

American CL version:
Male:Back: "Moderately broad at the shoulders, narrowing slightly toward the tail, long in length, flat, sloping slightly to the tail"
Female" "Back: Moderately broad at the shoulders, long, with an even slope to the tail. Feathers moderately broad and of sufficient length to carry well up to tail."

British Leghorn standard
male: "Back long and flat, sloping slightly to the tail"
female "With the exception of the single comb rising from a firm base and falling gracefully over either side of face without obstructing the sight, and the tail, which is carried closely and not at such a high angle, the genereal characteristics are similar to those of the male, allowing for the natural sexual differences" (ed note--this is the entire female description on type)

American Leghorn standard
Male "Back: Rather long, moderately broad its entire length, slightly rounded at shoulders; slightly sloping downward from the shoulders to center back, then rising in a gradually increasing concave sweep to tail.
Female: "Back: Rather long, moderately broad its entire length, slightly rounded, with a slight slope down from the shoulders to center back, and rising from center with a concave sweep to the tail."

American Andalusian standard
Male "Back: Rather long, well moderately broad its entire length, high at shoulders, sloping slightly to to tail."
Female "Back: Rather long, moderately broad its entire length, elevated at shoulders, sloping slightly downward at rear, then rising with a short, abrupt curve to tail"

I suspect that the Andalusian female description is talking about a very small cushion but not 100% sure.

@ Chicken pickin, The American Leghorn talks about the back rising at the center. This is the only breed with this description. I am definitely in the interpret the SOP for yourself camp, but I personally think that one would be adding stuff that is not there if one decided to interpret that the CL back should look the same as the American Leghorns. When I think of interpreting things, I think the interpretation of 'rather long' could be interpreted many ways because it allows for wiggle room, but I would not encourage such a broad interpretation to make it mean short. Its a longish back but you can interpret how long 'rather' means for yourself.

Chickat, Pictures because you asked

Above are pictures of the 2 plates that accompany the British Leghorn description. Flat downward sloping back, no cushion on the female, no center point upward (U) deviation on the males. The White one lacks the abrupt stop that the others have. It doesn't start mid back and is not a structural back curve but really looks more like infill of the saddle feathers at the base of the tail, IMO. I am wondering if this is what folks are thinking of when they are talking about the upward sweep of the tail rather than the U shaped sweep of the American Leghorn?

The British female descriptions are rather bare bones. I am not sure where our female Cream Legbar description came from since the American draft is far more descriptive than the original. I was not on the SOP committee when it was put together. I am interpreting it to mean a very small cushion, but could be wrong about that. Maybe @KPenley could elaborate on this description further.

note: all British excerpts and photos are from the 3rd edition British Poultry Standards, 1971. The American CL descriptions were cut and pasted from the previous draft since the current one is in pdf format on the Club Website, the American Leghorn and Andalusian descriptions are transcribes/quoted from the 2010 APA SOP.

 

[KPenley]

Discussions with Walt and examinations of the APA SOP diagrams, articles, and thriftiness taught us a lot about back shapes and general health. An abrupt angle from back to tail is a sign of a bird being unhealthy, not having as strong a frame, possibly having a pinched tail, and lacking in flesh. While the back description is mostly about what you feel in the structure, a smooth transitional sweep at the juncture from back to tail is considered more healthy, thrifty, and a sign of a good layer. This is not to say that the Legbar back should be short and U or Nike swoosh shaped. It should be long and broad enough to look and feel flat, slightly sloping to the tail, then a nice healthy sweep of lower sickles and saddle feathers covering the junction.

This is not the best shadow painting ever, but the back lines are pretty good.

 

[ChicKat]

Thanks dretd and KPenley for the information and Clarifications.

 

[GaryDean26]

Thanks tons! GaryDean -- I wish we could put this on the Club's webpage!!

You can probably send a request to the Fancy Fowl Magazine. They may even be able to get you a better quality photo.

You many be able to post the photo with a credit to the Fancy Fowl Magazine too since they appear to have their magazine on-line.

 

[ChicKat]

You can probably send a request to the Fancy Fowl Magazine. They may even be able to get you a better quality photo.

You many be able to post the photo with a credit to the Fancy Fowl Magazine too since they appear to have their magazine on-line.

Great minds do think alike!! I sent an email to Grant Brereton asking what it would take.

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

whoops - missed this one as far as the implications.  Did the sun lighten the plumage on the hackles of your chickens?  In my case, the sun darkened the hackles considerably. 

The saddles lightened and the hackle got a little yrllowed, theh almost balanced on the males and my females got lighter overall

 

[ChicKat]

The saddles lightened and the hackle got a little yrllowed, theh almost balanced on the males and my females got lighter overall

Still makes me think that our birds are like a kaleidoscope - always changing colors - based on age, molt, diet, UV radiation, lots of variety in just one bird over a length of time, IMO.

 

[GaryDean26]

I don't think that Krys has any photos of early 1990's Cream Legbars. There however is a photo in the June 1988 printing of "Fancy Fowl" of a pair a cream legbars that are credited to David Applegarth.

Oh...There also is a pair of Wernalas Collection Cream Legbars in an article by Sue Hammon in the April 2003 edition of Country Smallholding Magazine and some cream legbar hens credited to Lynne Jackson (hmm? I don't know who that is) in an article by David Scrivenger Country Smallholding Magazine.