Discussion of Legbar Standard of Perfection for -Alternative- Legbars - SOP discussion

[ChicKat]

earliest photo of Cream Legbars?




Posted while discussing with someone on the telephone who wasn't able to easily access the Cream Legbar Club's handbook where this photo resides. :O)

 

[chicken pickin]

Do you happen to know the year this is from? It is too bad the picture isn't more clear or better yet in color lol. But its nice to see the image. The tails are set very high on the Legbars in the photo.

 

[caychris]

Long backs though it seems.

 

[ChicKat]

Do you happen to know the year this is from? It is too bad the picture isn't more clear or better yet in color lol. But its nice to see the image. The tails are set very high on the Legbars in the photo.

Long backs though it seems.

Somehow, that picture looks like some publications from UK that were dated in the late 50's that I have seen elsewhere - but that is purely speculation...and if that is correct, then the London Dairy Show pictures from 1947 would pre-date them. Yes they do have long backs and meaty bodies as well. Agreed the tail angles are high.

 

[Daloorashens]

Would love to see an update on your chick! He looks so pretty. I have one that hatched a week ago -- so just about the age of this guy - with the same coloration -- and I'm curious! :O)

I wish I could show you!! I was considering buying one of these chicks. The trio I recently acquired I wasn't sure about the roo, or the hens for that matter. But have decided to just hatch out a bunch of chicks this year and see what I get from them. I will post pics of them in the other thread, thanks for the tip, drted .
I read this thread fairly frequently about a year ago and haven't been as diligent due to personal circumstances, but if opinions are what you are looking for, I would be one who would have a preference for birds which are colorful but not overmelanized, the pics posted by drted are great examples, the hens with the lighter coloring is what I have always liked, as opposed to the birds with more grey or more chestnut. And I definitely agree that it is extremely important to look at the the ease of autosexing the chicks, as that is one of the key features of this breed. But I am not a long-time breeder and have not hatched dozens of CCL chicks as some of you have, just have read and reread the threads and studied pics. I had a really nice quad a year and a half ago that I had to sell, The roo was a bit lighter than the one pictured in drted's post. I was excited to acquire a new trio recently.
Getting excited to work on my new project & really learn a lot from reading all of your posts and looking at pics!!

 

[ChicKat]

But have decided to just hatch out a bunch of chicks this year and see what I get from them. I will post pics of them in the other thread, thanks for the tip, drted .

Imo - probably hatching chicks and evaluating them is a superb approach to getting to where you wish to be.

I read this thread fairly frequently about a year ago and haven't been as diligent due to personal circumstances, but if opinions are what you are looking for, I would be one who would have a preference for birds which are colorful but not overmelanized, the pics posted by drted are great examples, the hens with the lighter coloring is what I have always liked, as opposed to the birds with more grey or more chestnut. And I definitely agree that it is extremely important to look at the the ease of autosexing the chicks, as that is one of the key features of this breed.

This is so interesting - Here is where part of the difficulty of our discussions of the breed arise - when we say 'more colorful' - then we have to have a benchmark to be more colorful than exactly what.... IMO the Applegarth birds and the 2014 winners can be the bench mark for 'more' or 'less' colorful. With that in mind -- the Jill Rees birds fall into the less colorful and anything that is more colorful than the Applegarth birds would fall into the 'more colorful'. Here is where IMO the pendulum got swung far toward the light side. I think that perhaps the ones that were once called 'more colorful' are the norm.

Soo my question for you Daloorashens - is when you say more colorful - do you mean more colorful than the above or more colorful than Rees line? ;O)

Getting excited to work on my new project & really learn a lot from reading all of your posts and looking at pics!!

I agree -- this is the time of year to really gear up for the spring hatching season - and it is exciting. I think 2015 is going to be an exciting Cream Legbar year for all of us.!! Glad that you will be working on the breed again.

Know what else, I have been thinking my own flock was over-melanized -- and now I am wondering -- I guess that they are, but I am beginning to really feel drawn to the crisp barring that is more black pigment touches white pigment in the barring -- rather than dark gray fades to light gray that touches white. I need to go read up on that SOP -- and as I look at the first CLs - I think that they had some distinctive barring - so I'm re-evaluating some of my strategy:

 

[dretd]

earliest photo of Cream Legbars?




Posted while discussing with someone on the telephone who wasn't able to easily access the Cream Legbar Club's handbook where this photo resides. :O)

I have to make a quick comment/observation on this amazing photo (thanks for posting it for all to enjoy!)

Of the three birds that are facing left and fully visible, the one on the right is very confusing--I think maybe its a she because of the pale breast that lacks barring and the hen-like tail without sickles. But Oh My, look at those wattles! Gigantic. If it is a boy-and a case can be made for that because of the larger size, big wattles, and what appear longer saddle feathers--where is the dark barring on the breast? Where are the sickles? You can see spurs on the male directly behind it but not on this one. And the carriage seems more girl like. Curious? What's all y'all's take on it?

And while I'm observing--I honestly can't make out any crests. The pair from the autosexing journal also had minimal crests. Have 'we' bred more crest into the breed than was there originally?

 

[GaryDean26]

Do you happen to know the year this is from? It is too bad the picture isn't more clear or better yet in color lol. But its nice to see the image. The tails are set very high on the Legbars in the photo.

The flock on the Berkshire Downs was 150 layers strong. It was owned A.C McKim and and started by a purchase of hatching eggs in 1948. This photo was taken around 1952 and appeared in both the 1953 and 1959 annual publication of the Autosexing Poultry Association of Great Britain.

The 1947 London Dairy Show was the first time that Cream Lebars were shown to the public. It is unlikely that anyone outside the Cambridge program had Cream Legbars prior to the 1948 debut.

 

[ChicKat]

I have to make a quick comment/observation on this amazing photo (thanks for posting it for all to enjoy!)

Of the three birds that are facing left and fully visible, the one on the right is very confusing--I think maybe its a she because of the pale breast that lacks barring and the hen-like tail without sickles. But Oh My, look at those wattles! Gigantic. If it is a boy-and a case can be made for that because of the larger size, big wattles, and what appear longer saddle feathers--where is the dark barring on the breast? Where are the sickles? You can see spurs on the male directly behind it but not on this one. And the carriage seems more girl like. Curious? What's all y'all's take on it?

And while I'm observing--I honestly can't make out any crests. The pair from the autosexing journal also had minimal crests. Have 'we' bred more crest into the breed than was there originally?

Yes it is confusing....IMO the crests have increased and become more luxurious with the passage of time -- the crests on the 1947 London Dairy show are also quite sparse - 'tufts' would be a better term.

Body and color on the one on the right I had kind of thought 'hen that looks rooster-like' - but if you look at the tail - is it possible that there is a light/white sickle arching over the entire tail ? If that were the case it would confirm rooster - lacking the dark chest barring -- And that lack could also be a trick of the lighting. It is hard to make out for certain!) I guess if a white sickle arches over the back -- it is glued to the top of the other feathers.

What if these are all immature cockerels - and since males manifest crest must less....they are barely visible from this distance?

The flock on the Berkshire Downs was 150 layers strong. It was owned A.C McKim and and started by a purchase of hatching eggs in 1948. This photo was taken around 1952 and appeared in both the 1953 and 1959 annual publication of the Autosexing Poultry Association of Great Britain.

The 1947 London Dairy Show was the first time that Cream Lebars were shown to the public. It is unlikely that anyone outside the Cambridge program had Cream Legbars prior to the 1948 debut.

Whoah - Thanks for the date info.

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

Crest size is something we will always battle I am sure. At the show this weekend, the judge said he expected a larger crest. Looking at the old Schilling picture in the B&W standard of white silkies which calls for a medium well rounded crest, that picture looks like what I imagine the judges are expecting when we say small crest. I have some chicks that I know will have larger crests just because their crest size at hatch was silkie like but I like the smaller tassel.