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I have other birds -- would this be a serious danger to them?
I have other birds -- would this be a serious danger to them?
Do some people think free range = no food?
- Thread starter SkyWarrior
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I have other birds -- would this be a serious danger to them?
Actually from the pictures, it looks like scabs from the roos squabbling, rather than pox. A pen full of roos may not have blood bath battles, but they are a bit more aggressive than hens when maintaining the pecking order. (Plus there is just more comb to grab)
When my hens peck at each other, they usually peck the other one on the head or back of the neck, but when my roos have a squabble they usually bite each other's combs and try to swing them around a bit. We've never had a serious roo fight, despite keeping many roos, but they DO often bite each other's combs in their little squabbles.
I have other birds -- would this be a serious danger to them?
Actually from the pictures, it looks like scabs from the roos squabbling, rather than pox. A pen full of roos may not have blood bath battles, but they are a bit more aggressive than hens when maintaining the pecking order. (Plus there is just more comb to grab)
When my hens peck at each other, they usually peck the other one on the head or back of the neck, but when my roos have a squabble they usually bite each other's combs and try to swing them around a bit. We've never had a serious roo fight, despite keeping many roos, but they DO often bite each other's combs in their little squabbles.
- Jul 5, 2010
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First up, I'm living in Thailand, so conditions will of course be different to where you are. Anyway, apart from those who keep poultry for profit, everyone else keeps regular Thai chickens (game birds). Not a single Thai family, that I know of, spends money on different feeds. Yes, some do feed some corn to their chickens, and in rural areas, rice is fed, but it's rice which still has the husks on. When I was keeping my birds in their coop/run, I was a living joke here in the village because of all the feed I was buying. I was going through more feed to feed my flock of 14 birds than what the feed merchant was selling to the entire local population
Then the day came when I decided it was time to allow the birds out to free range during the day. Well, I ended up having to throw feed away because the birds simply weren't interested in it. At present, their coop/run stands open during the day and there is always food there for them. With that said, a 5kg bag of pellets lasts about 10 days. I have 14 chickens and 2 ducks, and it's the ducks who eat most of the feed. BTW, our property is only 1/4 acre, but the birds seem to do just fine. I get an egg a day from almost all my hens unless they are being broody. The shells are as hard as nails and the yolks are bright orange and delicious. The only problem is that these Thai chickens only seem to lay for about two weeks, and then they go broody, even if they have no eggs to hatch
Of course we're just starting to approach the end of the monsoon season, so soon there won't be much grass and weeds about, and I expect the birds will require more feed then.
I think the big thing here is "breed". The traditional Thai chickens have not changed in hundreds of years, and all through the ages, they have be foragers. They're not bred for any special traits, but instead, they are just left to be as they have always been. I guess that makes them true heritage chickens?
Ironically, you pay more for traditional chicken meat over here at the fresh produce markets than you do for commercially raised chicken. meat. Many city folk prefer broiler meat though, but that's more to do with image/status than anything else. It's like, " I'm wealthy enough to buy my meat at a supermarket" attitude. Westerners on the other hand, who are living here, seem to have a problem with home raised chickens not being as tender as store bought chicken It seems humans have also had certain things bred out of them
As for me, I much prefer having to chew my meat. This is also the reason why I only eat locally raised beef rather than imported beef. I'm always hearing westerners over here complain about how tough Thai beef is, but it only tells me the don't have a clue as far as cooking it and aging it is concerned.
Anyways, a bit of topic. So, yes, I do believe chickens can survive entirely on free range, but I don't think all breeds can.
Then the day came when I decided it was time to allow the birds out to free range during the day. Well, I ended up having to throw feed away because the birds simply weren't interested in it. At present, their coop/run stands open during the day and there is always food there for them. With that said, a 5kg bag of pellets lasts about 10 days. I have 14 chickens and 2 ducks, and it's the ducks who eat most of the feed. BTW, our property is only 1/4 acre, but the birds seem to do just fine. I get an egg a day from almost all my hens unless they are being broody. The shells are as hard as nails and the yolks are bright orange and delicious. The only problem is that these Thai chickens only seem to lay for about two weeks, and then they go broody, even if they have no eggs to hatch
I think the big thing here is "breed". The traditional Thai chickens have not changed in hundreds of years, and all through the ages, they have be foragers. They're not bred for any special traits, but instead, they are just left to be as they have always been. I guess that makes them true heritage chickens?
Ironically, you pay more for traditional chicken meat over here at the fresh produce markets than you do for commercially raised chicken. meat. Many city folk prefer broiler meat though, but that's more to do with image/status than anything else. It's like, " I'm wealthy enough to buy my meat at a supermarket" attitude. Westerners on the other hand, who are living here, seem to have a problem with home raised chickens not being as tender as store bought chicken
It seems humans have also had certain things bred out of them
As for me, I much prefer having to chew my meat. This is also the reason why I only eat locally raised beef rather than imported beef. I'm always hearing westerners over here complain about how tough Thai beef is, but it only tells me the don't have a clue as far as cooking it and aging it is concerned.
Anyways, a bit of topic. So, yes, I do believe chickens can survive entirely on free range, but I don't think all breeds can.
Quote:
I really wish I could do this. But the coyotes and hawks are really on top of things here.
ETA: Yes, I think free ranging with table scraps is how it was done in years gone by. It probably depends if you grew up with chickens or not.
I'm in the same position. My chickens would be dinner for whatever wildlife goes through my land as opposed to my dinner. I think some folks figure it's just an acceptable loss and a price for free ranging for little cost.
I'm not quite as willing to share, but that's my choice. Also, Montana forage is probably not as high quality as forage in other parts of the country. People way back when had chickens that ate from the grain feeders for other livestock and got feed that way. There's not much of that on my property.
I think some folks who free range have valid points, but I know it would not work for me. The roos are still pigging down on the layer feed this morning, which is fine, but it looks like I'm going to have to make a trip into town to pick up a cart of expired bread because I didn't expect to go through so much feed so quickly.
Still, they're fun to watch and I like them.
I think I am going to wait before worming them. If they don't gain weight, with chowing down, I'll know I should worm and take care of that. I haven't wormed anyone in my flock, but they really don't eat a lot -- except the turkey.
As for caging chickens to keep the predators away... That falls under spending money on food an cages so you can be lazy. I have dogs that tell me when anything is amiss an its my job to guard them so they can forage....
An if you are not graining your chickens then why would you grain other livestock... I don't keep cows because I don't have land to sustain them. Graining them to sustain them costs more than there worth. Steping down to goats make more sense.
If you have to buy food for livestock then you are raising them inefficiently. Which is fine for people that have the money to make it a hobby. Its not for people that need the most from there land an livestock an dollar.
I really wish I could do this. But the coyotes and hawks are really on top of things here.
ETA: Yes, I think free ranging with table scraps is how it was done in years gone by. It probably depends if you grew up with chickens or not.
I'm in the same position. My chickens would be dinner for whatever wildlife goes through my land as opposed to my dinner. I think some folks figure it's just an acceptable loss and a price for free ranging for little cost.
I think some folks who free range have valid points, but I know it would not work for me. The roos are still pigging down on the layer feed this morning, which is fine, but it looks like I'm going to have to make a trip into town to pick up a cart of expired bread because I didn't expect to go through so much feed so quickly.
I think I am going to wait before worming them. If they don't gain weight, with chowing down, I'll know I should worm and take care of that. I haven't wormed anyone in my flock, but they really don't eat a lot -- except the turkey.
As for caging chickens to keep the predators away... That falls under spending money on food an cages so you can be lazy. I have dogs that tell me when anything is amiss an its my job to guard them so they can forage....
An if you are not graining your chickens then why would you grain other livestock... I don't keep cows because I don't have land to sustain them. Graining them to sustain them costs more than there worth. Steping down to goats make more sense.
If you have to buy food for livestock then you are raising them inefficiently. Which is fine for people that have the money to make it a hobby. Its not for people that need the most from there land an livestock an dollar.
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- #45
Quote:
I'm in the same position. My chickens would be dinner for whatever wildlife goes through my land as opposed to my dinner. I think some folks figure it's just an acceptable loss and a price for free ranging for little cost.
I'm not quite as willing to share, but that's my choice. Also, Montana forage is probably not as high quality as forage in other parts of the country. People way back when had chickens that ate from the grain feeders for other livestock and got feed that way. There's not much of that on my property.
I think some folks who free range have valid points, but I know it would not work for me. The roos are still pigging down on the layer feed this morning, which is fine, but it looks like I'm going to have to make a trip into town to pick up a cart of expired bread because I didn't expect to go through so much feed so quickly.
Still, they're fun to watch and I like them.
I think I am going to wait before worming them. If they don't gain weight, with chowing down, I'll know I should worm and take care of that. I haven't wormed anyone in my flock, but they really don't eat a lot -- except the turkey.
As for caging chickens to keep the predators away... That falls under spending money on food an cages so you can be lazy. I have dogs that tell me when anything is amiss an its my job to guard them so they can forage....
An if you are not graining your chickens then why would you grain other livestock... I don't keep cows because I don't have land to sustain them. Graining them to sustain them costs more than there worth. Steping down to goats make more sense.
If you have to buy food for livestock then you are raising them inefficiently. Which is fine for people that have the money to make it a hobby. Its not for people that need the most from there land an livestock an dollar.
We do predators a bit bigger up here than in Georgia. I wouldn't put too many dogs up against grizzly, mountain lions and wolves. My own dogs would find my chickens delicious, being Malamutes who work for me. Good pens keep predators out.
Dogs are exceedingly useful, but I don't have the time or the money to spend on a decent stock dog. I'm a professional dog expert, so I know the use a dog has. Still, I wouldn't put one up against our wildlife. Ranchers out here lose quite a bit of animals to wildlife, with or without dogs. Still I guess you can use zucchini against bears occasionally.
I remember one rancher losing a 100 sheep to wolves that just came in and tore through the herd before the rancher could get to them. The wolves take down dogs and cattle. Around here, you'll lose your alarm dog AND your chickens. That's the reality. Those of us who have barns keep our stock in fences and in barns.
As for buying grain -- we only have three months of a decent growing season. Forage isn't what its like in the south where you have a growing season 12 months of the year. Our latest snowstorm was June 16th this year. Already we've had one frost in August. We'll probably get a snowstorm in October, if we don't get one this month.
But OTOH, summer has a very long growing day. Dawn is around 4 am and we have light through 11 pm. So, our plants grow fast up here and harvest time is shorter. We're still getting peaches and cherries along with the early apples.
I'm in the same position. My chickens would be dinner for whatever wildlife goes through my land as opposed to my dinner. I think some folks figure it's just an acceptable loss and a price for free ranging for little cost.
I think some folks who free range have valid points, but I know it would not work for me. The roos are still pigging down on the layer feed this morning, which is fine, but it looks like I'm going to have to make a trip into town to pick up a cart of expired bread because I didn't expect to go through so much feed so quickly.
I think I am going to wait before worming them. If they don't gain weight, with chowing down, I'll know I should worm and take care of that. I haven't wormed anyone in my flock, but they really don't eat a lot -- except the turkey.
As for caging chickens to keep the predators away... That falls under spending money on food an cages so you can be lazy. I have dogs that tell me when anything is amiss an its my job to guard them so they can forage....
An if you are not graining your chickens then why would you grain other livestock... I don't keep cows because I don't have land to sustain them. Graining them to sustain them costs more than there worth. Steping down to goats make more sense.
If you have to buy food for livestock then you are raising them inefficiently. Which is fine for people that have the money to make it a hobby. Its not for people that need the most from there land an livestock an dollar.
We do predators a bit bigger up here than in Georgia. I wouldn't put too many dogs up against grizzly, mountain lions and wolves. My own dogs would find my chickens delicious, being Malamutes who work for me. Good pens keep predators out.
Dogs are exceedingly useful, but I don't have the time or the money to spend on a decent stock dog. I'm a professional dog expert, so I know the use a dog has. Still, I wouldn't put one up against our wildlife. Ranchers out here lose quite a bit of animals to wildlife, with or without dogs. Still I guess you can use zucchini against bears occasionally.
I remember one rancher losing a 100 sheep to wolves that just came in and tore through the herd before the rancher could get to them. The wolves take down dogs and cattle. Around here, you'll lose your alarm dog AND your chickens. That's the reality. Those of us who have barns keep our stock in fences and in barns.
As for buying grain -- we only have three months of a decent growing season. Forage isn't what its like in the south where you have a growing season 12 months of the year. Our latest snowstorm was June 16th this year. Already we've had one frost in August. We'll probably get a snowstorm in October, if we don't get one this month.
But OTOH, summer has a very long growing day. Dawn is around 4 am and we have light through 11 pm. So, our plants grow fast up here and harvest time is shorter. We're still getting peaches and cherries along with the early apples.
As for caging chickens to keep the predators away... That falls under spending money on food an cages so you can be lazy. I have dogs that tell me when anything is amiss an its my job to guard them so they can forage....
Uh, plus some of us have other jobs to do besides sit at home with the .22.....I mean the morgtage won't pay itself off in raccoon pelts (unfortunately!!)
So I don't consider building predator-deterring pens to be lazy
Uh, plus some of us have other jobs to do besides sit at home with the .22.....I mean the morgtage won't pay itself off in raccoon pelts (unfortunately!!)
So I don't consider building predator-deterring pens to be lazy
Quote:
Uh, plus some of us have other jobs to do besides sit at home with the .22.....I mean the morgtage won't pay itself off in raccoon pelts (unfortunately!!)
So I don't consider building predator-deterring pens to be lazy
That's what I'm talking about. Spending money to replace your time. Farming half the time or as a hobby an paying out money to get away with it. Most farmers are that now. To live effectively off the land it has to be your full time job. I know lots of old timers that still raise there livestock an live off the land without buying feed, lumber an wire an they get there bills paid. But it takes to much work for people now a days. Sure the new way works but its way less effecent than the old way. You are also subject to marked variations. I know I would hate to someone that is buying there feed to get by if the local feed mill burned down or couldn't get a grain shipment for some reason..
Uh, plus some of us have other jobs to do besides sit at home with the .22.....I mean the morgtage won't pay itself off in raccoon pelts (unfortunately!!)
So I don't consider building predator-deterring pens to be lazy
That's what I'm talking about. Spending money to replace your time. Farming half the time or as a hobby an paying out money to get away with it. Most farmers are that now. To live effectively off the land it has to be your full time job. I know lots of old timers that still raise there livestock an live off the land without buying feed, lumber an wire an they get there bills paid. But it takes to much work for people now a days. Sure the new way works but its way less effecent than the old way. You are also subject to marked variations. I know I would hate to someone that is buying there feed to get by if the local feed mill burned down or couldn't get a grain shipment for some reason..
We do predators a bit bigger up here than in Georgia. I wouldn't put too many dogs up against grizzly, mountain lions and wolves. My own dogs would find my chickens delicious, being Malamutes who work for me. Good pens keep predators out.
My dogs are pugs an there job is to alarm I can shoot an drop anything on my property from my window.... Just so ya know, we have Bears, wolves, mountain lions, foxes, black panthers, an Bobcats in Georgia. An I have seen all of them on my property
My dogs are pugs an there job is to alarm I can shoot an drop anything on my property from my window.... Just so ya know, we have Bears, wolves, mountain lions, foxes, black panthers, an Bobcats in Georgia. An I have seen all of them on my property
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- #48
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Uh, plus some of us have other jobs to do besides sit at home with the .22.....I mean the morgtage won't pay itself off in raccoon pelts (unfortunately!!)
So I don't consider building predator-deterring pens to be lazy
That's what I'm talking about. Spending money to replace your time. Farming half the time or as a hobby an paying out money to get away with it. Most farmers are that now. To live effectively off the land it has to be your full time job. I know lots of old timers that still raise there livestock an live off the land without buying feed, lumber an wire an they get there bills paid. But it takes to much work for people now a days. Sure the new way works but its way less effecent than the old way. You are also subject to marked variations. I know I would hate to someone that is buying there feed to get by if the local feed mill burned down or couldn't get a grain shipment for some reason..
Dude, our eagles would carry off your pugs!
Seriously. A good friend of mine keeps losing their free ranged chickens to golden eagles, bald eagles and osprey -- all which are federally protected and if you shoot them, you're going to jail. I've never met a dog who could sound the alarm before an eagle took a chicken. I've been running into bobcats, foxes, coyotes and lynx on the property. They're a concern, to be sure. I'm always nervous about raccoons because they're so sneaky. But I seriously doubt you have wolves in Georgia. What kind?
Edited: According to the government, you have no wolves .
Uh, plus some of us have other jobs to do besides sit at home with the .22.....I mean the morgtage won't pay itself off in raccoon pelts (unfortunately!!)
So I don't consider building predator-deterring pens to be lazy
That's what I'm talking about. Spending money to replace your time. Farming half the time or as a hobby an paying out money to get away with it. Most farmers are that now. To live effectively off the land it has to be your full time job. I know lots of old timers that still raise there livestock an live off the land without buying feed, lumber an wire an they get there bills paid. But it takes to much work for people now a days. Sure the new way works but its way less effecent than the old way. You are also subject to marked variations. I know I would hate to someone that is buying there feed to get by if the local feed mill burned down or couldn't get a grain shipment for some reason..
We do predators a bit bigger up here than in Georgia. I wouldn't put too many dogs up against grizzly, mountain lions and wolves. My own dogs would find my chickens delicious, being Malamutes who work for me. Good pens keep predators out.
My dogs are pugs an there job is to alarm I can shoot an drop anything on my property from my window.... Just so ya know, we have Bears, wolves, mountain lions, foxes, black panthers, an Bobcats in Georgia. An I have seen all of them on my property
My dogs are pugs an there job is to alarm I can shoot an drop anything on my property from my window.... Just so ya know, we have Bears, wolves, mountain lions, foxes, black panthers, an Bobcats in Georgia. An I have seen all of them on my property
Dude, our eagles would carry off your pugs!
Edited: According to the government, you have no wolves .
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You need hides to keep flying predators at bay(an SSS). Flying predators have good sight but cant see threw trees an other objects any better than a chicken.
Shows what the government knows, couse they are here. The government says we dont have bears ether there here too. One of them was in the city last week. I know the red wolf is in Georgia but the local ones are not red wolves. They are called timber wolves locally but I don't really know what kind they really are. I just know they make a coyote look like a itty bitty puppy.
You need hides to keep flying predators at bay(an SSS). Flying predators have good sight but cant see threw trees an other objects any better than a chicken.
Shows what the government knows, couse they are here. The government says we dont have bears ether there here too. One of them was in the city last week. I know the red wolf is in Georgia but the local ones are not red wolves. They are called timber wolves locally but I don't really know what kind they really are. I just know they make a coyote look like a itty bitty puppy.
I Free Range my birds, but I don't starve them!
I feed them all pellets either in the morning or in the evening.
I feed them all pellets either in the morning or in the evening.
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