Do turkeys make good flock protectors?

[liljunie]

I have read that a tom raised with chickens will protect the flock. If so is there a better breed of turkey for this? I have silkies and keep them penned up unless I can watch them (lost a couple to hawks). I also have 4 orpington hens that free range. I recently lost their rooster guardian (not to a hawk, but an accident) so I am not sure if the hawk will pick on them now that he is gone.

 

[chooks4life]

Anything you've read any species, breed, or gender will do is often more based on how their most recent progenitors were kept than on what type they are.

Our ancestors used to keep them free range for the most part, in mixed flocks, and they would protect chooks, they were known and used for it and I dare say at least partially selected for it when it came time to choose which ones were breeders or 'eaters', lol. After all many old farming texts show turkeys kept as flock protectors.

Then many turkey breeders adopted intensive modern keeping practices, and the most recent ancestors of many turkeys you can get today come from overcrowded commercial farming backgrounds, with no chickens and no predators, so nothing to stimulate and then reinforce this old protective behavior trait. That many generations of not fulfilling any behavioral trait or instinct pattern can dull it down or actually nullify it, and it's a safe bet it's the latter.

If yours are heritage turkeys, or any breed or strain kept with chickens, it still depends on what background they and the last seven or so generations of their family lived in. Just putting them into a different environment won't change their inherited behavioral adaptions to what was the norm for their most recent ancestors, at least not for a good half dozen generations to come, and even then it generally takes some careful culling and selection to get the behaviors you want. There is not necessarily any inherent instinct in turkeys to protect chickens or even their own kind from predators, and even inherent instincts like broodiness we have bred out of some breeds.

Some turkeys I've bought were bred for generations in separate environments from chickens, and they were ok with them if raised with them, but wouldn't protect them. There was some aggression towards the chickens, but that was it, and I soon stamped that issue out.

I did have one turkey hen from this background who charged the only hawk that ever took one of my chickens, but the hawk merely sat there on the newly dead chook and raised its wings in challenge, and she turned tail. (The males were long gone, hiding in the coops as soon as the hawk took the chook in the middle of a paddock where the main flock of turkeys and chickens were foraging.) My chicken hens will attack predators too, not so much the males, but I so rarely have predator problems I haven't selected for the traits of protectors because I never get to 'test' most of them out against predators.

I reared turkeys from backgrounds where they lived with chickens, as well as had them reared by chicken hens, and most were fine with chooks but again would not protect them. One male, however, became sexually attracted to chicken hens, and kept trying to mount them. He almost killed one of my hens. I had to cull him to protect them.

Despite viewing the hens as mates, he didn't attempt to protect them either.

If you want a turkey to protect chickens, your best bet is to buy from someone whose turkeys are known to do that. Just raising them with chickens, which I've done for many generations, won't guarantee anything.

Best wishes.

 

[liljunie]

Thank you! I appreciate the info. I think I will forget the turkey idea!

 

[chooks4life]

Thank you! I appreciate the info. I think I will forget the turkey idea!

You're welcome. It does seem it's a bit of a long shot these days. I think your best bet is an animal that is already highly territorial, which can make issues with other domestic animals, but it can work; some people use Maremma dogs or llamas to protect their poultry as well.

Best wishes.

 

[chickengeorgeto]

I have read that a tom raised with chickens will protect the flock.....

Any protection that a turkey provides to a flock of chickens is merely coincidental to the turkey protecting itself.

 

[chooks4life]

Any protection that a turkey provides to a flock of chickens is merely coincidental to the turkey protecting itself.

Not necessarily, because plenty of animals that have social structures involving prolonged familial associations will attack another animal which is attacking a family member of theirs. If a turkey views chickens as its family it will attack predators attacking them. Theoretically, anyway, the reality is that plenty of them will turn tail even if their own chicks are being killed. I found chicken hens on average to be better at defending the flock, lol.

Best wishes.

 

[ivan3]

If the chook run is adjacent to turkey run, the size differential (as seen from above) will sometimes make a raptor reconsider stooping on the chooks.

Our turkey hens are always the first in the flock to ID and alert on aerial preds (followed shortly by the roo).

Toms will sometimes intimidate visitors into remaining in their cars (they won't discriminate between your friends & the sales folks, however).

Turkey hens are death to snakes (regardless of size): https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/671185/turkey-hens-and-snakes-pic-heavy

Turkey hens will stalk (challenge) raptors of medium size (brief vid of mottled hen in last stage of circling Red Shouldered Hawk on stump in L of shot - use full sized player for more detail - Hawk became disgusted (squirting poop) before flying away. This encounter had been going on for at least 5 minutes before I grabbed the camera (had heard other turks alerting but not panicky, over monitor):

Other than the above exceptions & intimidation of `some' not-so-hungry preds offered by the size differential in a mixed free ranging flock foraging close together? Don't count on it.

 

[chooks4life]

While I don't disagree with you ivan3, I would just like to add that in my experience my turkey hens didn't care about snakes other than mild curiosity. My chooks were death on snakes, they ate them. Rodents too. I only mention this so nobody assumes all turkey hens are death on snakes, just like all turkey toms aren't death on flock-attackers.

I found my chickens (of both genders) and turkeys about on-par about aerial predator warnings, though perhaps the turkeys were a bit more 'on the ball'. I didn't allow aggressive turkeys to breed so didn't have any issues with toms and family or visitors.

Best wishes.

 

[ivan3]

While I don't disagree with you ivan3, I would just like to add that in my experience my turkey hens didn't care about snakes other than mild curiosity. My chooks were death on snakes, they ate them. Rodents too. I only mention this so nobody assumes all turkey hens are death on snakes, just like all turkey toms aren't death on flock-attackers. I found my chickens (of both genders) and turkeys about on-par about aerial predator warnings, though perhaps the turkeys were a bit more 'on the ball'. I didn't allow aggressive turkeys to breed so didn't have any issues with toms and family or visitors. Best wishes.

Yes, that's interesting. Our chooks will usually just `alert' rather than attack, snakes too large to eat (max consumption size, below): When foraging, together, down around the pond, the chooks will `alert' to Northern Water Snakes, but will give them wide berth (even small ones can eat a `big' meal - pic) . The chook alert will cause the turkeys to saunter in, or fly down from the Bald Cypress branches (like to hang out and observe/preen during afternoon heat), the first few nips from the turks and the NWS's head for deeper water: Below is a shot of the Black ratter that the Slate hen (was out for her afternoon `broody break'), by herself, chased out of the firepit, where she had been dirt bathing, and was noticed giving out alarm and leaping up and coming down on the head of snake. I got the camera in time to shoot its successful retreat: As I mentioned in thread I linked to in previous post. the one time I observed an absolute indifference to a snake, by a turkey hen, was when the hen was presenting to be bred (Black Rat coiled next to her in Day lilllies), but vertebrates, of every species, under the influence of `those' hormones often ignore all else... Wonder if your hens know something about those Aussie serpents that promotes `looking & not touching'? In this part of the Northern Hemisphere, the turks I've observed seem to possess an enmity to snakes; the expression of which does not always seem to be driven by hunger/survival. Thanks again for your observations (can't have too many) Take care!

 

[chooks4life]

As I mentioned in thread I linked to in previous post. the one time I observed an absolute indifference to a snake, by a turkey hen, was when the hen was presenting to be bred (Black Rat coiled next to her in Day lilllies), but vertebrates, of every species, under the influence of `those' hormones often ignore all else...

Wonder if your hens know something about those Aussie serpents that promotes `looking & not touching'? In this part of the Northern Hemisphere, the turks I've observed seem to possess an enmity to snakes; the expression of which does not always seem to be driven by hunger/survival.

I seem to have some kind of a knack for detecting 'python nights' when the temperature, wind, weather etc is just right and I go out between 9pm and 2am, generally, and find one, two or more pythons in the poultry cages. So I'm out there at night fairly often, and I usually check to make sure all is well once the pythons are removed. Early on into having turkeys for the first time I was making sure a hen hatching her eggs was covering the babies that had hatched, and I heard a hiss, exactly like a snake hiss. I looked around, didn't see anything, went back to checking that the chicks were all accounted for. Something struck my hand and I looked off to the right (using a hand torch because there's no power in the coops) and there was a little baby turkey with its wings partially open and partially spread, its head weaving around on its neck like a snakes', dancing back and forth. Don't know why it wasn't under its mother or how it got out to the side there, whether that was deliberate on its part or not, but it wasn't calling for its mother, it was focused on frightening me away.

I provoked this reaction some more to observe it, and it was imitating a snake masterfully, trying to remain as far away as possible while keeping me away from the nest. I've since seen the reaction in other turkey chicks. Have you seen anything like that? I'm sure someone, somewhere, has. I think it's not impossible that it may even have snuck out from under its mother to assault the 'predator' (me) from the side to protect its mother, though it's strange to think of a baby possessing instincts to protect its mother. The hisses instantly gave me the impression that I was dealing with a venomous snake at least 6 feet long, judging by the voice, pythons don't sound like that. When I saw the turkey make the second hiss I still found it hard to believe, it was so perfect an imitation.

It's not true in my experience that snakes can't jump, when hot enough and in the right proportions they can. Around the peak of summer each year, droves of tiny recently hatched CPs go racing rabidly through the yard, heading towards the distant coast, perhaps only coincidentally. I suspect they're getting out of their mothers' range before she eats them or something. If they see you or any moving thing, from about 20 feet away, they change course and come leaping towards you. They're only 6 inches long at the most at that age, and thin, but incredibly fast, venomous and aggressive.

I tried to catch one to remove it before the children or chickens got bitten, after the tiny thing had chased me down from the far end of the yard, but as soon as I went after it, it went under the already very low and flattened drought-stricken grass, and I couldn't find it, but every now and then it would pop up long enough to show it was inexorably heading towards me. I've never had to yield the yard to a snake before, lol, but I did that time, there was no winning. I've had to remove pythons as long as 10 feet from my living quarters and this tiny little thing 'won' our encounter... lol. The chooks avoid those by great distances. The adult CPs are no better, but thankfully slower. Unfortunately they seem to like houses and will go all-out to get into one, and they fear nothing. The chooks avoid them too. They're only drab in color, no idea why the chooks respect them and not the other drab snakes they eat.

Ditto on that, always good to hear other people's experiences and thoughts.

Best wishes.