Do you add stuff into your commercially available food?

[Perris]

That still doesn't tell me much, what was the nutrition profile of the feed?

It is all there in the thesis. If you want to know, read it.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

It is all there in the thesis. If you want to know, read it.

Only applicable if suitable forage is available. If, as is true for many (certainly here in the US), that they have to keep their birds contained at all times, then it is certain that simply adding things to a commercially produced complete feed will likely affect its nutritional profile in detrimental ways. You need only read these.very forums to find ready example of it.

You may be comfortable with the idea that your birds can forage for what they need, and some very brief studies suggest it's not immediately harmful, but I submit that the lack of truly feral flocks self sustaining themselves in most of the world is ample evidence that what is true for you can not be safely assumed to be true for all others.

And if your birds can't forage, the study (with its many limitation) is simply irrelevant

 

[U_Stormcrow]

@U_Stormcrow any thoughts on this?

For reasons not relevant here, I have no current access to my computer and my feed calculator. Cell phone isn't conducive to much in depth forum participation.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I have a recipe I screen capped from Barefoot Mimosas, I have a pic of the recipe. I love the idea of making food for the livestock. However, I'm also hesitant to just jump in after reading so much on here. With my last flock (2008-2013) I did whatever feed was on sale at our local feed store, I mixed some scratch stuff together, then they got kitchen leftovers, access to the compost pile.

I was thinking of doing the same approach this time, but wondering if I should just keep the feeder full of the commercially available stuff and then do a scoop of the mixed stuff for a better quality.

I've seen something like this "recipe" before. It wasn't as bad as I expected. Wasn't great. Certainly wasn't cost effective. Looks like a number of ingredients were slapped on to a superior recipe based on dubious claims and buzz words.

Also, People who know what they are doing don't mix weights and volumes. When my machine is accessible again, I can convert volumes to weight, then run the calculator. Which kelp?

 

[Perris]

Only applicable if suitable forage is available. If, as is true for many (certainly here in the US), that they have to keep their birds contained at all times, then it is certain that simply adding things to a commercially produced complete feed will likely affect its nutritional profile in detrimental ways. You need only read these.very forums to find ready example of it.

You may be comfortable with the idea that your birds can forage for what they need, and some very brief studies suggest it's not immediately harmful, but I submit that the lack of truly feral flocks self sustaining themselves in most of the world is ample evidence that what is true for you can not be safely assumed to be true for all others.

And if your birds can't forage, the study (with its many limitation) is simply irrelevant

I wish you would read things linked rather than assume their contents. The thesis was designed with the commercial poultry sector in mind. It uses typically commercial poultry breeds. Half the experimental birds were on typical commercial poultry concentrate. The hypothesis was that commercial operations can reduce their costs and improve their bird welfare by creating and using the outdoors for forage more than they do.

"It was concluded that high-producing layer strains are able to consume considerable amounts of herbage and that forage can provide laying hens with important nutrients. Chicory and quinoa seem promising, just as focus on earthworms has potential. Moreover, it seems possible to lower the standards of important nutrients in the supplementary feed, provided that good forage is available and that the production system supports good welfare of the poultry. A crop rotation system was suggested."

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I wish you would read things linked rather than assume their contents. The thesis was designed with the commercial poultry sector in mind. It uses typically commercial poultry breeds. Half the experimental birds were on typical commercial poultry concentrate. The hypothesis was that commercial operations can reduce their costs and improve their bird welfare by creating and using the outdoors for forage more than they do.

"It was concluded that high-producing layer strains are able to consume considerable amounts of herbage and that forage can provide laying hens with important nutrients. Chicory and quinoa seem promising, just as focus on earthworms has potential. Moreover, it seems possible to lower the standards of important nutrients in the supplementary feed, provided that good forage is available and that the production system supports good welfare of the poultry. A crop rotation system was suggested."

I did read it. And when I'm not working from a cell phone I'll be happy to cut and paste things from the study you seem to be glossing over.

Moreover, broadly, their hypothesis is that commercial egg producers can use a feed management system similar to what I already do. Commercial complete feed supplemented by pasture. Their results were not surprising to me.

 

[Perris]

I did read it. And when I'm not working from a cell phone I'll be happy to cut and paste things from the study you seem to be glossing over.

Moreover, broadly, their hypothesis is that commercial egg producers can use a feed management system similar to what I already do. Commercial complete feed supplemented by pasture. Their results were not surprising to me.

you said

Only applicable if suitable forage is available.

the whole point of the thesis was to encourage farmers to plant suitable forage and get their birds to use the outdoors, not utilizing stuff already available, so it's applicable to anyone, who could do the same.

This discussion has lost sight of recognizing as a myth the idea of 'dilution' of the nutrition of a so-called complete feed by providing forage or letting birds range, that is, by adding stuff to commercial feed. It would be nice to hear from the OP, since that is what their question was about.

 

[FrostRanger]

you said

the whole point of the thesis was to encourage farmers to plant suitable forage and get their birds to use the outdoors, not utilizing stuff already available, so it's applicable to anyone, who could do the same.

This discussion has lost sight of recognizing as a myth the idea of 'dilution' of the nutrition of a so-called complete feed by providing forage or letting birds range, that is, by adding stuff to commercial feed. It would be nice to hear from the OP, since that is what their question was about.

Their question was about mixing in a homemade feed that they found the recipe for online with commercial feed, not about whether they should let their chickens forage or not (which most people here would agree is an overall good thing), the benefits of letting them forage or providing them forage are irrelevant to the question at hand

 

[RollinWithTheStones]

Are they going to forage? Yes, sun up to nearly sun down.
Will they have commercial feed available? Yes
Will they still have grit and oyster shell available? Yes
Do I like the idea of mixing things into their feed to provide a more hands on holistic approach? Yes
Will they continue to get kitchen and garden scraps? Yes

The flock size is going to be 10-12, while saving some would be nice i have no issue not going the cheapest route. I'm still reading through the study posted.

 

[FrostRanger]

Are they going to forage? Yes, sun up to nearly sun down.
Will they have commercial feed available? Yes
Will they still have grit and oyster shell available? Yes
Do I like the idea of mixing things into their feed to provide a more hands on holistic approach? Yes
Will they continue to get kitchen and garden scraps? Yes

The flock size is going to be 10-12, while saving some would be nice i have no issue not going the cheapest route. I'm still reading through the study posted.

Letting them forage is great, table scraps are fine in limited amounts, mixing homemade with commercial would likely be more effort and expense than it's worth and not provide much if any benefit (and possibly be detrimental), I would simply find the best quality food nutritionally and provide that free choice. By letting them forage in summer you likely will save money in the warmer months 'cause they will be finding some of their own food. All that time free ranging will be of far more benefit than homemade feed