do you have dogs? what to do with our dog that kills?

[bobbi-j]

I've heard terriers referred to as "terror-ers".

 

[nzpouter]

This dog has had extensive training! We started out with training her to leave cats/kittens alone, and she refused. When we thought we would get some where with training. She'd outlash. She also was introduced to our chickens when they were a few days old. And every dog, we would let sniff/lick/socialize with the chicks at a young age, she was used to them. We have five dogs as well: 1 Jack russel, 1 Schnauzer, 1 Lahso Apso, a Pomeranian, and Pitbull husky. 

The jack russel was trained to be off leash, and return upon recalling. But if she sees a bird, a plane, a cat, a fly than she attacks. None of my other dogs are a worry. And my pitbull actually gets let out alone with the chickens when free ranging to fight off bird predators to keep the chickens safe.

I have tried to train this dog over and over. And she doesn't grasp that she isn't allowed to hurt things. My biggest problem is, is yes the dog came first. But if i was out in the country and she started to attack other neighbors chickens or livestock, she would be shot at. 

How do you her and how do you introduce the chickens to her? We always have 3+ dogs with us of any breed as we foster for the local rescues and most if not all will leave the chickens alone after a couple of weeks.

 

[centrarchid]

May I suggest not being overly concerned about simply the act of killing. If dog sees a rat, mouse, plane, fly or bird, then let dog attack. The key is not to attack chickens. Also you are backwards to my approach with dogs and chickens. I train dogs not to mess first with adult chickens which usually involves a calm older rooster. Over time I work dog with smaller chickens with lots of supervision. Dog is taken out to chase other things and for brisk walks before each training session. At some point I allow dog to chase things near chickens which requires a great deal of supervision as that is where the switch for not chasing chickens is fine tuned. My dogs are hunting dogs to the extreme yet they must be trustworthy around free-range chickens 24/7 at some point. I start with puppies that makes the process more complex and drawn out because of all the psychological changes the dog goes through but it give a more flexible dog in the long tun. I have seen accounts of parties saying dogs are trained after only two weeks or even a single training session. I am not so good as it takes me 18 to 24 months. Process is long-term and ideally so are the results. I have a fair amount of land providing dogs a rich environment for dogs to excersize their brains which helps greatly. My dogs are partners and family members that are staggered in age so only one was in training at a time. I did use fencing during early stages of training and have such in place for future dogs as older dogs age out. I do not advocate fencing alone as dogs or you will at some point defeat it resulting in carnage if dog not trained.

Your multiple-dog setup on small amount of ground with young chickens makes your job tough. There are times I indcate to people that they lack the resources needed to keep chickens and / or dogs, especially if they have a lot of other distractions.

 

[TalkALittle]

This dog has had extensive training! We started out with training her to leave cats/kittens alone, and she refused. When we thought we would get some where with training. She'd outlash.

Please explain what you mean by this. It might help us get an idea of how you've been trying to train her, what has worked, what hasn't, and perhaps why.

The first key to any kind of training, whether it be typical obedience behaviors, behavior modification of aggression, simple tricks or anything else is to work with the dog below their excitement threshold. If you start with a dog that is amped up, they aren't going to be able to learn. They'll just be reacting--rehearsing what they already know and usually do in that situation. My guess is that your dog gets excited when it even hears chickens. She might even be excited thinking about being in the area where the chickens usually are. She's probably excited at the mere thought of getting to the area where the chickens are, hence the bolting out the door. If so, she's already amped up before you even start your training. You need to lessen the intensity of the stimulus so that she's in a frame of mind where she can think and learn. Use greater distances, work out of the sight of the chickens but where she can hear them. Interrupt and correct her if she becomes hyperfocused on even the sound of the chickens. Then use a single chicken safely inside a wire dog crate and work her on leash within sight of the chicken. Interrupt and correct any unwanted behavior, praise appropriate behavior. Use greater distance if you have to in order to keep her below that threshold of reacting. Don't accept anything less than relaxed behavior. Hyperfocusing, not listening to you, quivering in excitement--they are all lower level reactions, but they are still undesirable. Interrupt and correct them. Don't advance to a harder level until the dog is continually able to maintain the behavior and calm emotional state that you want at the current level.

Too many people try and work the dog in circumstances where the dog is already reacting. Their dog chases chickens so they bring the dog right up to the chicken pen, the dog goes into its usual frenzy and the handler tries to correct and control the dog. They are setting themselves and their dogs up for failure. If they allow the dog to have the full blown undesired reaction then all they are doing is playing a repair game. You need to find the point at which the dog BEGINS to consider the IDEA of chasing. That's the point at which they are still thinking. Interrupt the unwanted emotional response and correct the INTENT not just the behavior. Think of it this way, if a dog chases and grabs a chicken there was a point at which the dog thought about chasing and grabbing a chicken. It might have only lasted a microsecond and it might have happened in the house when he heard the door open just a crack, but it was there. That is the place where the training needs to start.

 

[Ol Grey Mare]

May I suggest not being overly concerned about simply the act of killing. If dog sees a rat, mouse, plane, fly or bird, then let dog attack. The key is not to attack chickens. Also you are backwards to my approach with dogs and chickens. I train dogs not to mess first with adult chickens which usually involves a calm older rooster. Over time I work dog with smaller chickens with lots of supervision. Dog is taken out to chase other things and for brisk walks before each training session. At some point I allow dog to chase things near chickens which requires a great deal of supervision as that is where the switch for not chasing chickens is fine tuned. My dogs are hunting dogs to the extreme yet they must be trustworthy around free-range chickens 24/7 at some point. I start with puppies that makes the process more complex and drawn out because of all the psychological changes the dog goes through but it give a more flexible dog in the long tun. I have seen accounts of parties saying dogs are trained after only two weeks or even a single training session. I am not so good as it takes me 18 to 24 months. Process is long-term and ideally so are the results. I have a fair amount of land providing dogs a rich environment for dogs to excersize their brains which helps greatly. My dogs are partners and family members that are staggered in age so only one was in training at a time. I did use fencing during early stages of training and have such in place for future dogs as older dogs age out. I do not advocate fencing alone as dogs or you will at some point defeat it resulting in carnage if dog not trained.

Your multiple-dog setup on small amount of ground with young chickens makes your job tough. There are times I indcate to people that they lack the resources needed to keep chickens and / or dogs, especially if they have a lot of other distractions.

- it doesn't mean anything is "wrong" with the person or the dog or that the person is not a good pet owner, it just means that the situation is such that it cannot continue in a way that is fair to any of the parties involved and that changes must be made to the equation.

 

[LI chickie]

I have 3 Shepherds 2 cats & a horse. I'm very proactive about keeping new critters safe from the older/bigger critters. 2 of my dogs are seniors can barely walk let alone chase a chicken but I still use caution.
My 5 yr old shepherd is infatuated with the chicks she is a resource guarder and guards them from the others. I did some sheep herding with her and she's very good but she's mouthy, for that reason I haven't let them be on the same side of the fence together. My chicks are 5weeks old.
I've come to realize that my chickens have been loosing more and more of the freedom I was hoping to give them.

 

[TalkALittle]

- it doesn't mean anything is "wrong" with the person or the dog or that the person is not a good pet owner, it just means that the situation is such that it cannot continue in a way that is fair to any of the parties involved and that changes must be made to the equation.

x2. The difficult part in balancing the equation is figuring out what those changes are. They will be different for each person's situation. For some situations, it may be a combination of training and management of the dog, people, and environment. Sometimes you realize that circumstances just don't allow for the needed changes to be made though. In those instances, rehoming might be the most logical, humane, or considerate choice for all involved.

 

[fishwithaface]

x2. The difficult part in balancing the equation is figuring out what those changes are. They will be different for each person's situation. For some situations, it may be a combination of training and management of the dog, people, and environment. Sometimes you realize that circumstances just don't allow for the needed changes to be made though. In those instances, rehoming might be the most logical, humane, or considerate choice for all involved.

I live on two acres, and have only been free ranging our chickens in the front yard because they are still young. Their coop is in the backyard, which is less traveled by our dogs if they were to escape.

The only reason I bring up rehoming. Is yes, rehoming her would take care of many issues. She is not good with my 1 yr old daughter. My other dogs walk around my daughter, vs my jack russel will go straight through her, which has resulted in unwanted bruises and scratches on my young child. I am due in august with another baby, that I don't want the same thing to happen.

Another issue is, the extensive training she has had, was with kittens when we fostered them. She does not calm down. She gets focused, and goes, she has thee hardest time listening to me, to correct that behavior. She almost refuses. I have had her on a leash around a kitten, and when I thought i was getting some where. Like she wasn't focused on the kitten at all while on the leash. We would inch closer and closer with good behavior seen while on a leash. And as soon as she was inches away from this kitten, she'd snarl and bite with no warning. I have also kenneled kittens in a large crate, and let my Jack go to the crate and I have tried to correct the focused bad behavior. I didn't just spend a few days. I've spent months with training, she doesn't get it, not from me, not from the rescue groups that have tried to help me. Advice from others. The same thing went for training her with chickens, i'd allow her into the brooder room with me, she could sniff/lick/see the chickens, and she had no problem as long as I was holding them. And when i thought she had been okay with them, she bolted out the door (Because she likes to go outside in general) she had no idea the chickens were out there. But she knows what a chicken is, and her reaction was to harm it. My husband bolted out the door to stop the behavior, in which she knew she was introuble, but yet proceeded to go after the others. She was grabbed by my husband before she got to the others. But, the chicken she harmed, was not DOA. A broken neck, and still barely breathing, I helped her pass.



I do have gates all around my house. On is set up before the front door, and unfortunately my pitbull can unlock it, which we are taking actions to get a better latch for it. But were not to concerned with him opening it, as he has never been a problem. He is left alone, outside, with a nonfenced in yard to protect the chickens from walking/flying preditors.


I know I asked for training tips, and this case they are appreciated cause I do want to fix this problem without sending my pound dog to yet another home after having her for so many years and saving her. But training does only go so far, and after months of repetitive training. Please do not think that I am just giving up. I could have taken her back to the pound when it had happened. But I chose not to.

All the remarks, or insinuations that have led anyone to believe that I am an irresponsible dog owner, please needs to stop. I understand people can fix their dogs. But I can lead a horse to water, but I cannot make it drink. And simply doing the best I can.

 

[BrandyMcCoy]

Prey drive is what it is and a job to do is what the dog needs. It's up to you to decide if she is a good match for your lifestyle. If you rehome her shecould go to a person with no livestock or small animals and be put to work ratting or something.

 

[centrarchid]

Tip 1: Avoid rapid movements when working this dog. That means movements by you.

Tip 2: Avoid looking at chicken / cat when working with dog.

Tip 3: Get at top of pecking order with this dog. If you get gruff, then dog should check you out for confirmation about your intent.