Do you keep a dog you can't trust with your kid?

[redhen]

He'd be better off put down. You dont get to spend time with him anymore..hes now living outside..(after being an indoor dog..)
Its just kinda cruel...
If you cant trust him around your family and have him a part of your family..(and not all by himself outside), then its kinder to have them put him down humanely..
He probably jumps up and is so hyper because hes lonely.. he misses his family. Hes probably overwhelmed when he does get to spend any time with you guys..
I would NEVER bring a dog to a shelter to live either... cruel..cruel..cruel! Its much kinder to just go to sleep then be stressed out everyday and live in a wire cage..
Put him down or make up your mind to invest a TON of time and money on training for him.. but even then.. i dont think i would EVER take a risk with my childs safety...
But the choice is yours.. i wish you and the doggie the best of luck with whatever choice you make.

 

[Buckhunter76]

Before my daughter was born we got this troubled border collie x jack russel dog. Most likely abused, turned stray, big project dog. We really earned his trust. He finally could come into the house without putting his tail between his legs, though we could never swat him or he would pee everywhere. We taught him commands, took his camping, to the beach, though he would never get over his fear induced aggression towards strangers.
After my daughter was born he could no longer live inside. Her crying set him on edge and I feared he would hurt her. We have worked with him for over a year, and now that she is 18 months we can sometimes let them play in the yard together, very supervised. He is extremely hyper and no matter what we try we cant get him to stop jumping at her face. Yesterday she picked up his ball to throw it for him and he jumped and grabbed it, scratching her face. So it looks like he wont be around her again.
I'm not sure what we should do. We have worked with him but he is set in his ways. He is a wanna be chicken/duck killer too, which isn't too much of an issue because they are pretty secure. The point is, he cant spend any time with him any more. He just can't be around kids. I did see him once nip at our 3 year old nieces face.

Everyone votes we should take him to the shelter. We have a great no kill shelter that works to place animals in specified homes, so he would not be placed with kids. Our other old dog would be so sad but what can you do? What would you do?
By the way I am not looking for criticism. If I didn't care about him I would not be posting this. I wouldnt have tried for the last 18 months to teach him to live with us.

I have 3 dogs and a almost 5 month old son. My dogs was my kids before we had one. The dogs are 8,6 and 1+ years of age, and if one time my dog's ever so much as snip at my son, I have like 6 guns and wouldn't hesitate on disposing of the dog. Don't get me wrong I love my animals, but my child comes first.

 

[SteeleFaithFarm]

You are welcome to your opinion, I use e-collars to teach my dogs not to jump up on people. They don't think the person is attacking them, they just learn to sit and wait to be petted. The woman was asking for advice to save her dog. I gave her an option to try before resorting to more drastic measures. I'm fine with her killing her dog. We have enough of them in this world and a lack of dog Savvy peopleit sounded like a high energy timid dog. Not aggressive. The part where the "18 month old" child held the ball and the dog scratched her face. Was that aggression or over excitement? I feel as though these people were not capable of owning such a doc and a more experienced dog person could do better. But that's just my horrible advice. Yours was much better.

 

[FireTigeris]

I have a child I can't trust unsupervised with my dogs... but that's not the same.

 

[SteeleFaithFarm]

Lol. That made me laugh. Thank you. I do not recommend a shock collar in that case.

 

[Blondiechic]

Don't you have the option of a foster home for him to go to to find a child free house for him to live in? I find it hard to believe the only two options are putting him down or the shelter. Having said that my sister has two shelter dogs that are fantastic. Also, its not impossible to train your child how to behave around him and perhaps dissuade throwing of the ball at such a young age. I find it difficult to digest how easily people suggest death for an animal that is part of a family. GaVe you sought professional help?
Apologies for spelling...hate this phone but guessing you get my gist. Try getting help or re home to someone with no children yourselves...and yes, those people are about! After this amount of time and effort you have put into him he IS worth it.

 

[dainerra]

the problem with rehoming him yourself is that the USA has become a very litigious society. Rehoming a dog that has a past history of biting WILL leave you liable if the dog were to bite someone in the future in most areas. Even if you eventually win the suit, you've dumped thousands and thousands of dollars into your defense. That is why rescues will refuse to take a dog with any type of history, even if it has never actually bitten anyone.
We had to make this same decision a couple of years ago. It was on the advice of our vet, our trainer and rescue that we made the decision to put her down. No, she had never bitten anyone, not even snapped close to them, but she had started charging at people. Our local no-kill said that they would take her but, due to liability, would never consider adopting her out. She was a younger dog and there is no way that I could sentence her to a small concrete run for 6, 7, or 8 years!

It is really sad that it has come to this but such is the problem with pet over-population in the US. Right now in my local paper there are 12 ads for puppies to be given away free. What are the chances that someone responsible would want to take on a challenging dog that has proven itself to be a bite-risk when there are dozens of clean slate adorable puppies, not to mention all of the older dogs that are well-behaved and have shown no signs of problems?

The problem with a child-free house is that even people who don't have children have neighbors. Even if you live in a retirement community, eventually someone's grandkids are going to come to visit. It takes a lot of dedication to take on a potential biter. Add in the fact that a single careless moment can leave you on the losing end of a lawsuit and the chances of finding a home for this dog are pretty small.

So, looking to rehome this dog you have 3 options -

1) be honest about his problems and hope and pray that he eventually finds a home. (I'd include waiting years at the no-kill shelter here). hope that if/when he does bite someone that the victim doesn't sue you.

2) don't tell people that he is a risk and possible danger to kids. hope and pray that if/when he does bite someone that the new owners don't come back and sue you because you didn't tell them.

3) he is euthanized. this comes in several versions. You take him yourself and love him until his last breath and know that you did everything you could but the risk was too great.
shelter takes him, decides that he can't be rehomed due to liability and he is euthanized. He has spent the last days of his life scared and alone in a strange place wondering where his family went and when they are coming back.
He finds a new home, bites someone and is ordered euthanized by the courts. Here that means he is picked up by animal control, shoved into the back of the truck with other scared and frightened dogs, driven to the facility where he waits for his death surrounded by screaming diseased strays and the smell of death.

 

[dainerra]

Lol. That made me laugh. Thank you. I do not recommend a shock collar in that case.

I do it would actually work BETTER since you can explain to the child exactly what earns them a punishment and how they can avoid it.

Note: I've never used one on my kids, but have been tempted with my husband!

 

[Stephanie739]

Depends on how much you want to keep him. If I couldn't rehome him with full disclosure that he needs to be in a kid free home, I would try to build a very good enclosure for him, a place where your child can visit, yet is separated by the fence. That breed of dog isn't biting due to aggressive genes (i.e pit bull - which I would never keep with kids) As your child grows, she and the dog will develop a tolerance for one another. I would less tolerant with a large breed, but a formerly abused jack russell who snips due to fear is not the same (in my book) to a pit or rottie that has a tendency to turn on kids (which I WOULD put down) My two cents...

 

[dainerra]

You are welcome to your opinion, I use e-collars to teach my dogs not to jump up on people. They don't think the person is attacking them, they just learn to sit and wait to be petted. The woman was asking for advice to save her dog. I gave her an option to try before resorting to more drastic measures. I'm fine with her killing her dog. We have enough of them in this world and a lack of dog Savvy peopleit sounded like a high energy timid dog. Not aggressive. The part where the "18 month old" child held the ball and the dog scratched her face. Was that aggression or over excitement? I feel as though these people were not capable of owning such a doc and a more experienced dog person could do better. But that's just my horrible advice. Yours was much better.

An experienced person can do that, yes. An inexperienced person has a much higher risk of escalating the problem from simple fear into outright aggression.
Also, a fearful dog needs to be handled differently than one who is simply over-excited and/or forgets their manners.

I agree that the dog is most likely not aggressive in the true sense of the word. He sounds incredibly fearful which may be due to his past experiences or may be that he is genetically unsound. Unfortunately, a fearful dog is much more dangerous. An aggressive dog, you know what you have. The dog is in your face and will let you know when you step over his line in 99% of cases. Fearful dogs have different triggers and problems. You often can't tell (unless you are an experienced handler) that the dog is being pushed over his limit.

Our rescue Freya had this problem. She was never brave enough to growl or to act out aggressively towards people. She would wait until your back was turned and then rush you with a show of teeth and noise and hope to scare you away. Do I doubt that she would have bitten if she felt there was no chance of escape, absolutely. Unfortunately, she was so afraid of strangers that "no escape" could be as simple as someone standing in the only door into the room. Thankfully the OP's dog (or most dogs) aren't that bad.

IF the OP wants to try to keep the dog, absolutely an experienced trainer/behaviorist. Not someone who teaches training classes but who has experience in dealing with reactive/aggressive/problem dogs. IF the OP can regain her trust that the dog won't be a danger, then keep him absolultely no doubt. But, trust is a tricky thing. No, I would never keep a dog that I didn't trust and I wouldn't recommend that anyone else do it. Lack of trust and fear of a dog can often be a self-fulfilling prophecy. Mom is nervous whenever the dog comes near the child. Dog doesn't know why, but thinks "oh this little person makes mom scared. I'd better keep an eye on him he might be dangerous." Dog's escalated behavior makes mom MORE upset. Dog, being a dog, thinks that the problem is the scary child and becomes even more reactive. Just not a risk I would take.

Now, if the OP is dedicated and has the facilities to 100% keep the child and dog separated while meeting the needs of both, that would be a win-win situation. Dog gets his attention and exercise and all his needs met every day. Child is kept far away and has no access to the dog at all. This also works nicely because even dogs that don't do well with smaller/younger children have no problem interacting with an older kid. (Dogs find kids to be strange animals. They look like humans but smell, act, and sound different. They make high pitched noises and move quickly and randomly.)