Do you keep a dog you can't trust with your kid?

[FireTigeris]

Depends on how much you want to keep him. If I couldn't rehome him with full disclosure that he needs to be in a kid free home, I would try to build a very good enclosure for him, a place where your child can visit, yet is separated by the fence. That breed of dog isn't biting due to aggressive genes (i.e pit bull - which I would never keep with kids) As your child grows, she and the dog will develop a tolerance for one another. I would less tolerant with a large breed, but a formerly abused jack russell who snips due to fear is not the same (in my book) to a pit or rottie that has a tendency to turn on kids (which I WOULD put down) My two cents...

Really?! Aggressive genes?

A dog bite (any animal bite really) is a dog bite to the face (the biting target of any biting/clawing animal that can reach from fish and turtles, to snakes, cats, birds, and dog) of anyone under ....8-12 or so potentially blinding the child and often scaring, even the toy dogs are dangerous to young kids, sometimes more so because some people do not socialize them properly or taught bite inhibition.

google "Nanny Dogs" ... *sigh*

 

[Stephanie739]

I don't believe it is cruel to have him stay outside with the proper care and shelter, especially if he has visitors. Its a dog! Fence him in, give him a good doghouse and some company, he will be fine as the child grows.

He'd be better off put down. You dont get to spend time with him anymore..hes now living outside..(after being an indoor dog..)
Its just kinda cruel...
If you cant trust him around your family and have him a part of your family..(and not all by himself outside), then its kinder to have them put him down humanely..
He probably jumps up and is so hyper because hes lonely.. he misses his family. Hes probably overwhelmed when he does get to spend any time with you guys..
I would NEVER bring a dog to a shelter to live either... cruel..cruel..cruel! Its much kinder to just go to sleep then be stressed out everyday and live in a wire cage..
Put him down or make up your mind to invest a TON of time and money on training for him.. but even then.. i dont think i would EVER take a risk with my childs safety...
But the choice is yours.. i wish you and the doggie the best of luck with whatever choice you make.

 

[Stephanie739]

haha! I knew I would get some feedback with that. I always in up in debates over pits (which do have aggressive genes) Jack russells are hyper and high strung. An 18 month old is too young (in my opinion) to have around, unsupervised, any hyper active dog. Perhaps I am wrong, but was he going for the face or was that just the area closest to him, grabbing the ball..playing too rough? I would provide a cozy outside living arrangement for the dog and wait as the child and dog age.

Really?! Aggressive genes?

A dog bite (any animal bite really) is a dog bite to the face (the biting target of any biting/clawing animal that can reach from fish and turtles, to snakes, cats, birds, and dog) of anyone under ....8-12 or so potentially blinding the child and often scaring, even the toy dogs are dangerous to young kids, sometimes more so because some people do not socialize them properly or taught bite inhibition.

google "Nanny Dogs" ... *sigh*

 

[dainerra]

"it's a dog" is the problem with the majority of people. A dog has needs, both physical and emotional. both border collies and terriers are working dogs. They are bred to NEED a job and it takes a lot of physical and mental exercise to keep them healthy. Border collies have been created to work closely 1 on 1 with a person. Without that job and direction, they develop behavior problems. Pacing, digging, barking, and destruction are just a couple of those potential problems.
That is why, unless you have a LGD that has been carefully selected to NOT need human interaction, an outside dog is a bad option. Now, if you are a farmer and are outside from dawn to dusk and your dog is with you and interacting and working, then nothing wrong with the fact that he doesn't come in. But, how many people live that lifestyle now? We leave early for our commute to the office. We are gone all day and then we have kids to take care of and after school activities and dinner and family time and there is nothing wrong with a guy wanting to watch a little TV before bed is there? Oh, well, I'll exercise the dog tomorrow. After all, he has food and a place to sleep out of the rain - it's just a dog.

 

[Stephanie739]

We will just have to disagree here. I didn't say put him in a 4x4 kennel and forget he exists. If he has a large run and can be visited by the child through the fence, as well as taken out whenever possible, given extra care during cold months, he will adjust just fine. I recall reading that there is another dog in the family which would be devastated if this dog left. Well the older dog will be good company in the run when appropriate.

"it's a dog" is the problem with the majority of people. A dog has needs, both physical and emotional. both border collies and terriers are working dogs. They are bred to NEED a job and it takes a lot of physical and mental exercise to keep them healthy. Border collies have been created to work closely 1 on 1 with a person. Without that job and direction, they develop behavior problems. Pacing, digging, barking, and destruction are just a couple of those potential problems.
That is why, unless you have a LGD that has been carefully selected to NOT need human interaction, an outside dog is a bad option. Now, if you are a farmer and are outside from dawn to dusk and your dog is with you and interacting and working, then nothing wrong with the fact that he doesn't come in. But, how many people live that lifestyle now? We leave early for our commute to the office. We are gone all day and then we have kids to take care of and after school activities and dinner and family time and there is nothing wrong with a guy wanting to watch a little TV before bed is there? Oh, well, I'll exercise the dog tomorrow. After all, he has food and a place to sleep out of the rain - it's just a dog.

 

[Stephanie739]

I mean we are basically talking about either killing the dog or figuring out what else might work.

 

[Stephanie739]

I just wanted to add a bit of a rant regarding "its a dog" issue. I think this country is really out of balance. We have factory farms that forget animals are even living breathing creatures deserving some sort of humanity. We have dog shelters that put as nearly as much effort into adopting out a homeless untrained hound dog mutt than you would expect from a child adoption service. Yet we have foster care for children that go through less stringent scrutiny than those same animal shelters. My position is unchanged. Its a dog - deserving of humanity, kindness, and care - appropriate for a dog. The child comes first.

 

[GableBabble]

Firstly, I think I have missed where the dog did bite the child. Could someone point it out for me? All I saw was the nipping, which with the breeds the dog has, is to be expected. Expected does not mean acceptable. I would encourage the OP to get training. By separating this dog from the child like you are, your also not correcting the behavior. I am not going to go into a explanation about proper or suitable practices for socializing the dog with the child. A professional trainer will help you with that. Establishing rules will go a long way to help this dog integrate with your family.

Now, bashing the Pitt bull breed leads to ignorant comments about them. NO breed of dog is 100% safe around children without having experience and training prior. I have three children. All three of my kids have been around Pit bulls. One my DH brought home from work that was so abused it would rip you apart. He actually had acid sprayed on him. Had his teeth pulled out, ears cut with scissors, beaten.... this dog should have hated people. He was the sweetest and most respectful dog we have ever had the pleasure of meeting. He now visits retirement homes with his family. He is also a classroom dog (he goes to school with the homeroom mom and spend the day in heaven playing with kids all day).
It is the owner, not the dog. Even in situations when you think you have done everything. Training should start as soon as you can. That way you can avoid a problem pooch.

 

[clucknpeck]

I really appreciate all the advice, thank you. I think looking into a trainer sounds like a good idea, at least that way I can get their opinion of whether or not the dogs behaviors are fixable.
The discussion about him biting children- though he lunges at my daughters face it is not aggression rather him being hyper. Something I have been working on with him. HOWEVER like I said in my post, he did try to bite, out of fear/ aggression, our 3 yr old nieces face. If someone is a stranger, especially a child, that's when his aggression comes out.
When we first brought him home he was terrified of coming indoors. We had to carry him in them coax his shaking body. He constantly curled up like we were going to hit him, still does though not as much, which has made punishing him very hard.
He has major food aggression towards our other dog, a 13 year o ld Aussie Shepard, and will try to bite his face if we throw them a treat and the Aussie gets to it first. The sad thing is these bahviors were not always there. It's like the older he gets the worse the behaviors get. Or maybe it's the more comfortable he gets, I don't know.
I also wanted to add that having a austrailian Shepard we are use to a high energy working dog. We have always been able to channel his energy into new tricks and most recently herding ducks, but it seems impossible to channel our problem dog's energy into anything,

 

[FireTigeris]

haha! I knew I would get some feedback with that. I always in up in debates over pits (which do have aggressive genes) Jack russells are hyper and high strung. An 18 month old is too young (in my opinion) to have around, unsupervised, any hyper active dog. Perhaps I am wrong, but was he going for the face or was that just the area closest to him, grabbing the ball..playing too rough? I would provide a cozy outside living arrangement for the dog and wait as the child and dog age.

I'd like the name of that gene form the dog genome project-

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/genome/?term=canis%20lupus%20familiaris

http://www.genenames.org/useful/genome-databases-and-browsers

Then we could screen baby (humans or dogs or cats) to see if they have the 'aggression gene marker' and take appropriate actions...

All Terriers are smart, active, suborn, and breed to be people pleasing - the need jobs and structure- socialization.

Each was bred for a specific job and that job has changed over time, like greyhounds were not bred for tracks originally - they were bred to see and weary prey.

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Anyway I do not allow children under a reasonable age, (depends on the child) around any animal (depends on animal) unsupervised ever- that particular dog I would keep on a leash around any strangers then I control the dog and can also control the intensity of the meeting, I'd have the dog create trained and create if the dog is to excited.