Does any one know where to get african pygmy geese

[destinduck]

I like your confidence Mike. but Im always learning everyday. And the deal isnt "super secret" He just wanted to remain anonymous, Manderins are super easy to do . Africans, I dont think so. Bottom line is Ill take all the HELP I can get! All the other cynical stuff I can definitely and honestly do without. Now Where do you stand realisticly Mike? I pm ed ya Thank you And you can call me Shawn

 

[philter4]

Quote:
All live animals are CITES, there are just 3 categories I, II, III.

CITES III animals have little or no restrictions.

CITES II (which is probably where pygmy geese are but I don't know this for sure) can be imported and once here can traded/sold with no restrictions unless you are importing them from another country. For this you need papers from the exporting country which is a count of the animals and usually there is a strict quota on the number of individuals exported. Here in the U.S. you need to file notice and an approval by Fish and Wildlife which you have to have to import any live animal anyway.

Finally is CITES I which are the most restricted, they can not, or only rarely, be imported but if they are bred here in the U.S.A. can be owned, bought and sold. There are different rules for each species so sometimes it can be difficult to get a CITES I animal. Still, they do it all the time, just one example is a spider tortoise, if you look around you can find them for sale from different breeders but they are CITES I. There are restrictions that have to be addressed to get a CITES I animal, but if you live in the same state as the animal was bred you can buy them without getting a permit but to take it across state lines you need to file for the permit unless you are moving and taking the animal to the state where you will live. In other words you can't give or sell a CITES I animal to someone who is not in the same state as you unless both of you have the correct paperwork.

 

[destinduck]

Never delved in it very deep.. I guess all Ive ever wanted to know about CITES was the so called cat I animals. Like a NENE.

 

[DMFarm]

The african pygmy geese (Nettapus auritus) is not a cites listed bird you can buy sell or trade any cites 1 listed bird alive but you can not sell it dead but I seen skins of elliott, swinehoe, impeyan and other that on the cites 1 list on ebay for sell I don't know how close this is enforce but the fine is 500.00 ea for both the seller and buyer.

 

[philter4]

Quote:
Actually it is listed, it is a CITES III, (above my guess was CITES II) all animals are listed, it is just a matter of which category. USF&W does not have any designation for it so there are no restrictions as far as they are concerned, but you still need to have them cleared by USF&W and Customs to import them.

You can not normally sell a CITES I animal over state lines or between countries without paperwork, alive, dead, or any part of the animal. I was curious about the rules of selling these pheasants or parts so I went to the USF&W site and looked up the information and as far as I can tell the reason it is legal is because the birds have been in captivity since before they were given the status as endangered and it is common knowledge that they are captive bred and no one is smuggling wild birds into the country for sale. Species that were not being captive bred for sale until after 1982 may have some problems but I am not sure on the language they use so I can't be 100% on that fact. A perfect example of this is the wolf, Canis lupus, the domestic dog is the same species but a different subspecies, Canis lupus familiaris, but no one would ever question the fact that it is legal to buy, sell, ship or own a dog.

 

[DMFarm]

There is a loophole in selling them they can only be sold in your state that you live and you can't advertise it for sale and it can't be shipped to another state. If a taxidermist from another state want it he has to drive and pick it up. Get on a taxidermy forum and ask them about selling a cites 1 bird. I raised alot of these birds and have dealt with several taxidermist most want ever buy a cites 1 bird most all of the taxidermist know the laws on these birds.

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

Doug,
Didnt the A.P.W.S. and other organizations get all those restrictions dropped for free trade on the common, yet endangered stuff? I heard that some where. I ask a question as to how all could be selling endangered species across state line with out permits, and that was Dan from the GBWF forums reply to it. Only certain ones, such as Cabot's tragopans still require any form of permit to sell.

Either way, no on the pygmys, they are free for anyone who wants to go threw the effort to get them, no restrictions of any kind Federally speaking.

 

[DMFarm]

I not sure about that I know I talk to a taxidermist about 2 month ago about a bird and he did some checking in on it and this is what he was told. I think the law stupid and you should be able to do whatever you want with a bird that die.

 

[destinduck]

Me too Doug. Hes dead for Gods sake. And the Cabots and the Nene's are the only birds I personally heard the feds worring about, even if bred for long time(selling the offspring) I learned alot from this mission regardless.

 

[philter4]

Quote:
While in principal I agree with that statement, if the animal is dead who cares what happens, but in the big picture there is a huge trade in animal skins and parts. Take it to the extreme and think of a dead elephant, the animal is dead so who cares what happens to it? The problem is there are people who kill the elephant just so the tusk can be taken and if it were legal to trade in dead animals it would just compound the problem. I know we are talking about a captive bred bird that has never been in the wild but as far as I can tell the laws are usually very broad rather then specific so they are easier to enforce. Basically it is simpler to say they are all illegal rather then try to come up with a list of legal and illegal animals or parts.