Does anyone know whats going on with the universal health care bill?

[eggchel]

Thank you everyone for sharing informative and easy to understand points as well as your thoughts and personal experiences in a calm and friendly manner.

Please, keep this discussion civil and polite.









Those who fail to do so will be censured....


.... and then fed to my chickens.... who will eat anything (or anyone).

Im sorry for the senseless loss of your husband, AHappyChick.
Luvarabhorses, I hope that your mother does well with her cancer treatments.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Part of the confusion is that there are several versions out there. The finance committee version is the only one that seems to have a chance and it has not been finalized yet. They are still negotiating the different parts to try to get the votes to pass something. With all due respect to other posters, facts and myths cannot be finalized until the actual version of the bill is finalized. One facts and myths I'd really like to see is on the Canadian and British versions of health care. Those have been in existance for a long time and there is some history on them. There is also a lot of misinformation. My wife and I, while she was pregnant, once lived under the Danish version many years ago. There were some disadvantages but overall we both preferred it to the American system in place at that time. And I think the American system is worse now than it was then.

I'm retired, which means no more new money is coming in. In planning retirement, health care costs were the biggest unknown and are still my biggest concern. My mother and my wife's parents are still around. Health care is a huge issue with them. My brother was severely financially stressed when his youngest son developed medical problems. I would like to see some of the stress taken out of the issue for people. I hope our elected officials can rise above the politics, both the partisanship between the parties and the differences within the parties, and improve the situation but I have doubts they are willing to risk us not re-electing them and vote for our benefit instead of our kneejerk voting reactions. Unfortunately we probably get what we deserve.

The intent is to cover more people and reduce the cost to many of the harder hit. It is a shakeup of the existing system. Things will change if something is actually passed. People are afraid of change. And somebody has to pay if more people get more coverage at reduced costs, whether that payment is in money, quality of care, or future research. Maybe that is why they are trying to restrict the costs to a figure of 900 with a lot of zeroes behind it. And before somebody says we are going to bring huge savings out of these changes, can somebody tell me of any US representative, US senator, or US President that did not say we need to reduce waste in government during their election campaign?

Anyway, that is my opinion. I suspect some people may disagree with part or all of it.

 

[AHappychick]

Quote:
I think we should PM each other if you would like to discuss it further after this responce.

But no one approved the surgery in fact I told them they could NOT do it. They went behind my back and did at his bedside not in the OR while I was in the waiting room. he bled out from what they had done and since they were not paying attention he lost so much blood that he went brain dead and his organs began to fail. It is not about Money, and yes all the doctors and hospital should pay for what they did, this hospital is one of the worst in the country and needs to be exposed as such. in my opinion my DH life was priceless, and his income alone would have been aprox $10,000,000 in his lifetime according to experts. Then their is the incredible pain he endured, the baby he never saw (I was 7 month pregnant with our first child) who is fatherless, and my grief. Together he and I generated a lot of money on the side with real estate investments so although it sounds high when he died we were making an average of $100,000 in profit a year in investments alone. Again I don't expect to get that but I can say that the hospital is very scared and has been tying to settle since day one, but settling with all the records sealed does me no good as I do not want this to happen to someone else and I want to be able to talk about it. Fact is most of the money will be used to build a state-of-the-art level 1 trauma center for my area (something we do not have) and to help change the laws, so I will be giving back in the best way I know how.

if I was to ask for a much smaller sum it would be no skin off their backs and it will continue to happen to other innocent people. Some times the only way to make changes is to speak in the only language they seem to understand and that is $.

Statistically though we have a much higher rate of hospital and Dr related deaths than many of the countries that have "socialized medicine"

I think 300 people a day is way to many and most of them are common mistakes or ones that could have been fixed easily enough.

Case and point...

Several Preemies were given a fatal overdose of a blood thinner whose label was a slightly darker color blue than the babies dosage. But nothing had been done about it, they did not recall the medicine after a few babies died. Then Dennis Quaid's twins were given an overdose for the same reasons (the bottles were so similar the nurse confused the larger dose for the smaller one. ) I guess a few babies dying was not enough to justified the pharmaceutical companies from spending the money to recall and change the packaging, but when a famous person was effected and it hit the news, well they had to change it. There are so many mistakes like this one.

if we were to have full disclosure on hospitals and doctors we could make an informed opinion as to who we use, then the public eye would be on them and they would have to change or risk no one seeing, or using their facilities.

Also it is very easy to look at it from your perspective, I don't expect anyone but another person who has been through what I have been through to understand. But to let this all go away for a few million dollars is not an option for me as I could not live with myself if I did. I need some answers and to know that these particular doctors will never have the opportunity to do this to someone else. The money is just a means to an end, and that end will hopefully be change that benifits our society.

 

[WalkingWolf]

I think we should PM each other if you would like to discuss it further after this responce.

I can respect this and understand you feel hurt and pain, possibly this should not have been brought into the discussion as it is so sensitive. I did check site out and it is a nice tribute to your late husband. I will try to delete some of my PMs today so if you want you can PM me. To give you an informed opinion I would need to be much more informed as to specifics which so far we have no clue. Again my deepest sympathies.

Statistically though we have a much higher rate of hospital and Dr related deaths than many of the countries that have "socialized medicine"

These figures are very very misleading as other countries do not report deaths the same way we do. They do not report premie or even infant deaths, and they do not report deaths from accidents, murders, and suicides as we do. If a person is transported to the hospital for all purposes dead and pronounced dead in the hospital it is counted as a mortality, not so in Canada.

Also it is very easy to look at it from your perspective, I don't expect anyone but another person who has been through what I have been through to understand. But to let this all go away for a few million dollars is not an option for me as I could not live with myself if I did. I need some answers and to know that these particular doctors will never have the opportunity to do this to someone else. The money is just a means to an end, and that end will hopefully be change that benifits our society.

Most people here have lost a loved one, sometimes due to accident, sometimes poor health and sometimes other causes. I personally have lost a father due to a accident, a mother due to heart disease, a brother to meningitis. Not counting friends lost in battle, or fellow officers fallen in the line of duty, or other close friends here and there. One of my closest friends a dispatcher was murdered by a pimp when he tried to stop a beating. I personally don't think the answer to everything is a law suit but that is just me and I understand the pain people feel from my own perspective. Just saying it is very much a part of the problem with our current system that will not go away with any govt plan that does not address it. The only thing that will go away are good doctors.

Again you have my deepest sympathies and condolences.

 

[EweSheep]

I am just as confused as the rest of the citizens. Big concerns are the affordability we will need to discuss and type of care we can get without going into debt.

If everyone has to break down the costs from the time the supplier gets the MRI machine to the hospital and then pass the cost down to the patient. If you can break the amount of cost per patient to use the MRI scan in a given year, the MRI machine would have been paid off within the year. Still the hospital charges the same amount when payments are being made. Paying the employees, rental of space (if any), and electricity would be pretty straightforward.

 

[Horsewell]

So america will have healthcare like over here in England?? where we dont have to pay?

 

[cmjust0]

Quote:
What you're describing is a single-payer system. The main sticking point here in the US seems to be "the public option," which is basically just medicare/medicaid for healthy people with money.

Personally, I think healthy people with money ought to be able to buy into medicare/medicaid if they want, considering medicare/medicaid is going bankrupt. Perhaps if medicare/medicaid didn't exclude people who were willing and able to pay a premium and then not use the coverage very much, they'd actually see it turn around and become...well, less bankrupt, at the very least.

Seriously, what's the worst that could happen? Even if the new paying customers lose everything they have and stop paying, they'd be signing up anyway.

At least their wouldn't be any new paperwork, right? Cheaper already..

It really couldn't hurt, I don't think.. I mean, if I ran a business, I certainly wouldn't exclude everyone EXCEPT people who used my service a lot and never paid me... I think we can all agree that's a patently stupid thing to do, and we'd want the opposite...we'd want people who paid us, but rarely used our service...which, when you think about it, is exactly what health insurance companies have now.

Since insurance is largely tied to employment in the US, they get people who are healthy enough to work by default. Not to mention that since most insurance premiums are deducted directly from paychecks, they actually get paid BEFORE the employee gets paid!

How sweet is that if you're an insurance company?!?

Not only that, but it's actually legal to drop a paying customer whenever the customer starts really using the insurance or gets too sick to work and are let go from the job to which the insurance is tied! That's just icing on the cake, isn't it? Whoever came up with it is clearly a GENIUS.

(...and all the people who stood idly by and let it happen should maybe be drug out back and shot, but that's probably another topic altogether...

)

Anyway, what sucks is that when people do get really sick and dropped from their work coverage (and/or their jobs), that's when they go on medicare/medicaid and are taken care of by the taxpayer...while the insurer keeps all those past premiums they paid for no good reason..

All I know is that I, personally, wish there was a public option. That way, if I lost my job, I could pick up freelance, contract, or part-time work, or even start my own company, with the security of knowing that I'd still be able to get affordable health coverage.

And, frankly, I don't worry that it's "government" coverage.. If I get in a wreck or someone robs me or whatever, I call up "the government" -- 911 -- and they send "government agents" -- Police/Fire/EMS -- to help me. I drive my car on "government-run" streets and roads.. There are potholes, yeah, but how would roads and streets work if they were privately owned?...yikes...I shudder to think about "premium, regular, and discount lanes" or some such monstrosity.

I guess what I'm saying is that if we're worried about "socialism" or "marxism" creeping in to the US...sorry, but it seems a little late. That probably went out the window with a standing army several hundred years ago.

Not only that, but capitalism is simply in our DNA as Americans. It just is. Anybody who tried to bring true socialism to the US would have about the same luck as the US has had so far in bringing democratic capitalism to the rest of the world.. We wouldn't know what to do with socialism any more than a terrorist knows what to do with a senator.

Terrorist: "So...we blow you up if we don't like you, right?"
Senator: "No, you vote against me in the next election."
Terrorist:

Personally, I think that if we woke up to socialism tomorrow, someone would make a million dollars that night by paying cash at discount rates for everyone else's piece of socialist pie, chopping it all up into smaller pieces, repackaging it, then selling it as "fun-sized sociabites!" at a huge profit margin.

It's who we are. It's what we do. We're Americans, and Americans are capitalists. Michael Moore didn't even turn down his capitalism-generated brazillions of dollars, did he?

Enough said..

Those are my opinions, anyway.

 

[AHappychick]

WalkingWolf we are already loosing our good Doctors mostly because they are forced to see way to many people from the insurance companies and not making enough money. My favorite Dr who delivered my sister and was the OBGYN for my whole family for over 30 years just packed up his office and moved away. He had been listed as one of the best Doctors in the country by the NY Times many years in a row, he said he could no longer afford his house payments with what he was making and felt as though he did not have time for his patients. He is still a doctor and practicing but he had to move out of state to NH where the cost of living would be cheaper for him. And let me tell you I know at least 5 people who are actually making the 4 hour drive for their yearly check-ups, that is how good a dr he is. I wish I could but cant justify such a trip for a pap and since I wont have any other children.

My fathers best friend who used to drive a BMW in the 80's now drives a ford, and no longer belongs to the golf club that he was part of for 20 years because he can not afford it. On average a dr only has time to spend 30 seconds with each patient.

Our country and its medical system is just as corrupt as wall street and the banking system. I am not smart enough to know if United Health Care is the answer but I really don't think things can get much worse.

BTW no hurt feeling about AJ, the $ and what not, I only brought it up cause you mentioned the caps and wanted to let you know that they do exist, at least in NY they do. For instance NYS had determined that a child that looses a parent is entitles to 1.5 million for their loss it is a set amount that they have put in place. The other moneys are based on age, income ability, pain and suffering, and those types of things but that is considered separate from what the child gets.

What it comes down to is that lobbyist have way to much say in how the country is run and the laws are written to take care of them and the big companies not us, the people of this country. We are all just disposable walking wallets to them.

Our country has not done too badly with Medicaid and medicare so I don't see why a public option would be any worse than those are. The middle class always seems to get the short end of the stick and we are what makes this country run, or at least we used to be.

 

[michickenwrangler]

FYI

Mexico will have national health care beginning in the year 2012. Costa Rica has also has plans for national health care. These are countries that the USA has considered "less developed" than itself.

Mongolia had national health care (for humans and horses) during the communist era. After the communists went out of power in the mid 1990s, people couldn't afford health care and wanted it back.

 

[WalkingWolf]

FYI

We already have public health care for those without means. Gov insurance is provided to the indigent already. Every state, county, and some municipalities have staffed health depts where medical care is available for very cheap to free. This is first come first serve and it means waiting.

Let's be very clear the health care reform has nothing to do whatsoever with actual health care. What it has to do with is forcing the rest of us into a program we do not want to be in. That is called socialism and maybe communism. Let them pass a health care bill that does not ask me to pay for it, and does not touch my health insurance and leaves my doctors alone and I'm all for it. Ohhh and make it mandatory for all of the politicians to be on it and the federal and union employees that will be exempt. Why are they getting a pass?