Does DE affect composting? And do I even need it?

[pop57]

I use DE on about everything including myself, two teaspoons a day in a glass of water, it has cured my joint pain. I use to eat 4 of those MSN Condrotion tablets a day, i stopped those one day and the next started DE. WOW is all I can say Its done me good.

I use it to worm my sheep, dogs, I have it in with all my birds Turkey, quail, pigeons, and chickens they love to dust bathe in it. It has not affected my compost pile at all. I have been composting since way before it was kool.

I throw this link out http://www.earthworkshealth.com/ its is where I by from,and its dirt cheap

as well. 50lb delivered to the house was $56. Thats from Ne. to Ky.

Make sure you get the Food Grade. Im not a sales person for this company but maybe i should be. Ive turned a lot of people on to this and most all have had great results. I will admit that there list of what is does for you reads like a snake oil salesman pitch but it works for me.

 

[greyfields]

It shouldn't effect composting. If anything, it may help keep the flies down a bit.

Does DE help? DE has only been 'proven' to be effective against external parasites. All research done for treating internal parasites is either inconclusive or shows a 'trend' towards lower parasite loadins. However, in any does ever given in a study, it was non-theraputic.

Now, I will duck out of the way as the DE people lob snowballs at me. This is more a religious debate than a scientific one. I personally wished it worked; but I don't spend money on it.

 

[Momo]

I googled this question awhile back because my DH is an avid composter / gardener, and there's a lot of information indicating that DE does not harm earthworms. DE kills insects by damaging their exoskeletons by abrasion and causing them to dehydrate; earthworms aren't insects and don't have exoskeletons. DE also doesn't work as well in a moist environment (less abrasive), making it even less of a problem for the wigglers. It's also very absorbent which is why it helps keeps the coop dry and smelling nice.

 

[luvmygirlsinAK]

Here is a direct quote from the DE where I buy mine from:
This effective remedy against many insects is made from the skeletons of small, fossilized one-celled creatures called diatoms, which existed in oceans & lakes and constructed tiny shells around themselves out of the silica they extracted from the waters. The microscopic shells, deposited on the floor of the ancient seas, collected into deposits sometimes thousands of feet deep. This earth contains microscopic needles of silica which do their work by puncturing the bodies of insects, allowing vital moisture to escape from them. The insects die from dehydration. It is so finely milled that it poses no threat to either humans or animals, but these particles, when taken internally by insects, interfere with breathing, digestion, and reproductive processes. It will not harm earthworms. It is useful as a dusting agent for gypsy moth, codling moth, pink bollweevil, lygus bug, twig borer, thrip, mites, earwigs, cockroach, slugs, adult mosquitoes, snails, nematodes, all species of flies, corn worm, tomato hornworm, mildew and more. Diatomaceous Earth (DE) is a fine powder and should not be breathed � wear a mask when applying.

This quality Diatomaceous Earth is food grade. It is a fine light grey powder.

DE is an abrasive dust commonly used to kill pests in the home and garden. It is unique among the insecticidal dusts, since it works by physical rather than chemical action. The microscopic shells are covered with sharp needlelike projections that penetrate an insect's cuticle, allowing vital liquids to leak out. DE also absorbs the waxy coatings on insects' bodies; both actions cause pests to die of dehydration. It is nonselective and may kill desirable insects.

Plants and soil may be dusted to control crawling pests like slugs and snails. On plant foliage, DE will kill soft-bodied pests like aphids, caterpillars, leaf-hoppers, and thrips; hairy-bodied pests may be somewhat resistant. Useful as a dusting agent for gypsy moth, codling moth, pink bollweevil, lygus bug, twig borer, thrip, mites, earwigs, cockroach, slugs, adult mosquitos, snails, nematodes, all species of flies, corn worm, tomato hornworm, mildew and more. Best when applied with an electrostatic charger.

Apply only in problem areas to minimize harm to beneficials. When applied around the base of susceptable seedlings like cabbage, onions and other transplants, DE helps control root maggots and other soil-dwelling pests. Avoid dusting flowers. For stubborn thrips infestations, dust only the undersides of affected leaves and in a circular band on the soil beneath each plant. Apply when plants are wet with dew or after overhead watering, to help keep the dust on the plants. Mix DE with liquid dish soap and water to make a thick slurry; paint on the tree trunks to protect them.

DE is so fine that it poses no threat to either humans or animals. It will not harm earthworms, animals, humans or birds. However, it is strongly suggested that you use a protective mask and goggles when handling this fine powder to guard against respiratory and eye irritations. Don't apply the dust where children are likely to encounter it. Rain will dilute or wash away DE and reapplication may be necessary.

An excellent product for use in stored grain and seeds and for indoor flea and louse control. Farmers often add DE to animal feed to control internal parasites of livestock. If used in pet food start with very small amounts watching for diarrhea...perhaps 1/4 teaspoon for a house cat per day.

Contains less than 1% crystalline silica.

For Storing Grains: Generally used at the rate of 1 1/4 cup per 6 gallon bucket* (a shy 1/4 cup per gallon) or 5 pounds per ton. *It is suggested that it be placed in the bucket with the product and then thoroughly rolled and turned to assure good mixing.

 

[kimpaw]

I looked hard at this question last spring when we got our 24 chicks. It looked really useful and seemed harm less at first. I ran it past a dozen of my organic gardening friends here in Maine including Eliot Coleman, and the director of the "Good Life Center" (Helen and Scot Nearings legacy) . Everyone I talked to was suspect. Nobody had hard facts about why not to use it but it just didn't seem like a good idea. After my discussions my choice was to not use DE as there don't seem to be good answers about its continued use in the same garden. I have to belive that over time it will build up in the soil and at what time does that become a problem. 10 yrs? 100yrs? never? The things I know are that it is an indiscriminate insect killer(good and bad) and it is already millions of years old so it probably isn't going to break down any time soon. That being said I am still interested in peoples experiences. If anyone can speak to the soil build up issue I would love to hear it. Kimpaw

 

[WoodlandWoman]

I couldn't find any substantiated facts or studies, although I looked after this thread started. Basically just hearsay and opinion, some of which was conflicting. Most of it said it was no problem for earthworms. I also read a lot of web sites on hawks last year and they all said red-tailed hawks don't kill chickens. Farmers that think they do are just ignorant.

I plan to just keep an eye out for more substantiated information on DE effects on all the various creatures that live in the soil. I have concerns for all the life forms in a healthy soil, too, not just the earthworms.

Last year was the first time I used it, for external parasite control on a broody. I had no problem on the chickens that were dust bathing. The broody wasn't dust bathing, though and she caused a problem in the community nest area. So, we ended up bringing out the DE, which worked. I'm not currently using any now. If I get in a bind next year, I may again. I just won't be using it in large quantities and only when I really need it. Or I might try something else. There's a lot of snow in my yard. It's hard to know what I'll be doing next bug season. That's a long time away!

Kimpaw, I really like Eliot Coleman. I remember back when he co-hosted a gardening show on TV. I really enjoyed it. It was so informative and pleasant. After one of those episodes, I bought a longer handled hoe, so I could use it standing up and save my back. No wonder I still have kindly thoughts of him.

 

[mtnranchroo]

There are two kinds of DE. One is processed for use in swimming pool filters and the other is processed for insect control. The latter acts like tiny pieces of glass and grinds up or cuts up the insects exoskeleton. It becomes harmless when is gets wet so I don't understand why one would not allow it on their property.

 

[Dustoff79]

As an alternative you could use Zeolite in your bedding.
http://www.bza.org/zeolites.html

I use a product called Sweet PDZ (initially recommended by Jarhead)

http://www.sweetpdz.com/

It will help control moisture and smell problems. It is a natural alternative I now use in my coop and stalls. It absorbs the ammonia and is great in compost/garden. The more research I have done on this the more I like it. DE is a useful natural product that will not harm the earthworms or composting red wrigglers however, use it carefully around your garden. It does not discriminate between harmful and benificial insects. It is harmful to honey bees. There are many studies on its efficacy as a wormer in animals and I am not sure what the "real" answer is. Many people add it to feed, I use it to keep bugs from my feed bins. It is the safest method I know of keeping them out and can still be fed to my horses and chickens. No DE is not a panacea but it is (IMHO) a significant part of an organic/natural program. If you have slug problems, beer pans are great. I personally do not have a problem using DE in and around my home/barn/animals. It is far better than chemicals but just like anything you can get too much of a good thing. I use it for bug control, primarily flea/tick/mite and in feed, for smell and moisture I use Zeolite, and when I am cleaning out the coop all materials go to my compost piles and is mixed in. Good luck and hope this helps some.