dog and cat nutrition. To believe vets or not

[Wolfwoman]

Quote:
Why do you think wild canines eat the stomach and intestines of their prey first? It's because they DO need the different grasses, grains and plants that are eaten first by the prey animal. Wild canines will also often snack on grasses and berries available to them where they live. Dogs are omnivores with a primary carnivorous nature. They DO need other things besides meat.

 

[dedicateddourly]

Quote:
I wouldn't put so much faith in AAFCO standards. They are not very strict, to say the least. To be AAFCO-approved as a "complete and balanced" food, you can either:

1) Meet the nutrient standards which is virtually meaningless to me because while the food might have the proper percentage of protein, the protein source or the quality of the protein is not taken into consideration. There is an infamous case where someone was able to meet the standards by cooking a leather boot and adding supplements.

2) Pass Feeding Trials - This consists of 8 dogs or cats eating the same food for 26 weeks only (roughly 6 months). If 6 of those 8 animals are relatively healthy and haven't lost too much weight, then the food passes the test.

These standards are ridiculous.

Read more here: http://www.rawfed.com/myths/standards.html

 

[Stina]

Why do you think wild canines eat the stomach and intestines of their prey first? It's because they DO need the different grasses, grains and plants that are eaten first by the prey animal. Wild canines will also often snack on grasses and berries available to them where they live. Dogs are omnivores with a primary carnivorous nature. They DO need other things besides meat.

I didn't say they don't need any vegetation....I said they don't need GRAIN. And many wild canines actually avoid eating the intestinal contents of larger prey, including generally grey wolves (which are the same species as dogs...just different subspecies). I believe dogs do benefit from some veggies/fruits and potentially grasses in their diet, but grains are COMPLETELY unnecessary.​

 

[Whispering Winds]

Quote:
Medical doctors go to school for 8 years too and don't know a lick about real nutrition, IMO. Nah, don't change your eating habits, just take these 25 pills...

Bock, can you buy the feed you want for your dogs and cats yourself? Then your folks can't complain about the cost. Or at least offer to pay them the difference between Purina and Blue Buffalo/Taste of the Wild?

That is true about medical doctors and nutrition. They don't know a lick. A chiropractor goes to medical school just like a medical doctor. But, when they are ready to go into actual medical school, the doctors go to internal medicine, I believe my chiro told me, and the chiro students go to nutrition. Why do you think medical doctors send you to a nutritionist when you need specialized help with your diet~off topic, but it made me think what my chiro told me about doctors and nutrition.

 

[Tiff in NV]

kibble is like eating McDonalds for your entire life ... feeding a balanced flesh/fats/veg diet far surpasses ANY kibble.

 

[TiaView]

Bock, be sure to tell your parents (respectfully) that what they spend for good nutrition, they will save in vet bills in the long run.

And if you can, opt for the TOTW over the Blue Buffalo...

 

[Redyre Rotties]

Just a note on grains/carbs. I am a long time (nearly 20 years) raw feeder. I do use grains on growing puppies and grump in whelp or nursing.

Otherwise, it's meat and bones with incidentals from our table.

 

[TanithT]

Quote:
I didn't say they don't need any vegetation....I said they don't need GRAIN. And many wild canines actually avoid eating the intestinal contents of larger prey, including generally grey wolves (which are the same species as dogs...just different subspecies). I believe dogs do benefit from some veggies/fruits and potentially grasses in their diet, but grains are COMPLETELY unnecessary.

If you put large whole prey in most canid enclosures (there are a few exceptions), you're going to have to clean up a gut-pile mess, which is why very few zoos do this. They don't like those bits and don't eat them, though sometimes they play with them.

Some species do eat some of those parts, but they "squeeze" out the gut or stomach contents fastidiously before eating.

Some very small whole prey is consumed in a single crunch by canids, so the ingesta of rodents, etc, may be eaten. But usually even that doesn't work too well on a practical level for whole prey feeding in zoos, because the picky ones will tear anything bigger than a mouse apart and reject the gut contents anyways. Cleaning messes like that in the enclosure is a lot of work, so generally whole prey analogues are given (ground muscle and organ meat plus bone) in easy to thaw and feed giant "sausages" where there is no mess or waste.

With wild felines, forget it, they won't eat gut contents no matter what the incentive or what they come packaged in. They also generally skin or pluck their prey, so cleaning up after them if you give whole prey is a pretty insane job.

 

[Wolfwoman]

OK then I think I'll just disregard all the Alaska videos I've seen of the wolves disembowling moose and eating the contents first.

Often that's what they eat and leave the rest either for later or for scavengers.

 

[chickerdoodle]

Stomach contents of grazing animals is typically vegetable matter (grasses) and sometimes fruit matter--rarely grain alone like it is in any packaged dog foods. The grain in their stomach and gut has also been naturally broken down by the prey's digestive juices and process which helps digestibility for the wolf. Wolves/dogs do eat vegetable and fruit but don't do as well on grain and it is not needed for good health. Grain won't hurt wolves and they can digest some of it but a diet without grains is optimal for good health. They get plenty of fiber in the vegetable matter.

Cheap packaged dog kibbles often rely on grains as a main protein (corn) which is a poorly utilized protein compared to lean meat but they can and obviously do live on it. It is also used by some to add to their protein content. It is not beautiful, fresh corn--its what's left after the best parts of the corn has been detoured to products for human consumption or its a lower quality corn grown just for animal consumption (cheaper to grow).

All of my dogs are in exceptional health verified by their annual blood tests (I am big on preventative medicine) and exams as well as the remarks of folks we meet on a walk. Bottom line is its our choice, but if you want to do the very best for your pet and can afford to do so you need to look at bio-availability in proteins. You will see a difference in grain vs meat. No one is required or considered a bad "parent" if they feed grains. Their pet may be fine and live a good long life. I just want to give my pet every chance to beat the odds and live to their natural potential.

FYI: I worked for a veterinary allergy specialist and grains were the number one cause of food allergies. Of course dogs will eat almost anything (some things appear gross to us humans but it isn't necessarily harmful to them).