Dog attack

[centrarchid]

The family pet issue easier since gives more options and enables greater time spent on training process. With respect to having dog be defensive, that involed outright training since such behavior is not quite as ingrained in many hunting dogs as it is for other breeds such as those used to protect herding livestock. None-the-less most dog breeds are derived in part from those that guarded village or farmyard and as a result guarded animals not unlike poultry. Not all of that guarding capacity has been bred out and hunting dogs tend to train very easily with some being down right smart.

 

[jak2002003]

You make very good points.

Pointers are dogs that like to chase prey and 'point' rather that kill at the end of the chase. Maybe that is why they have not killed too many chickens.

I was a bit surprised that you thought it OK for your dogs to kill a few birds during the training process. That is a bit harsh! They should not be killing ANY birds to start with.

Gundogs and other kinds of hunting sport dog, are also used to retrieve dead birds that have been shot. Here the dog is not bred to actually go hunting and do the killing. These kinds of dogs might like to chase the birds, but they can easily be taught not to kill them with proper training.

I agree with you that the chasing is a big part of the thing that can trigger a dog to attack a chicken. A dog needs to be taught not to even chase a chicken in the first place.

my personal experience was different and took me totally by surprise - this is why I advise people never to leave a dog alone unsupervised with chickens in an enclosed area. Anything can happen. Here is my story.

My dog is a small poodle shihtzu mix breed. She was raised with the chickens since she was a puppy. Chickens never ran away from her. In fact some used to hop on her back when she was sleeping, and snuggle around her. My dog NEVER showed aggression or any interest in the chickens. I used to leave the chickens free ranging and the dog together in the garden when I went to work. The dog would chase out any cats and also large birds and was good protection for the chickens.

This was great for over 3 years. Then one day 2 of my roosters started having a big fight. I was in the house. This was the thing that triggered my dog. My dog went to investigate and one rooster fell into the garden pond and was flapping about and all the chickens started screaming. My dog grabbed the rooster as it was getting out the water and killed it. I ran out of the house to see my dog was in a frenzy and started chasing all the chickens about trying to kill them - lucky most flew out of the garden.

My dog had cornered one (with clipped wings) under the pond filter and was busy digging frantically to get it out, mouth full of the hens tail feathers. When I touched the dog to pull her away she tried to BITE ME.

Now my dog is so submissive and will always lay on her back when anyone tried to pet her. It was totally out of character and she was like a different dog.

I was heartbroken because the relationship between me and the dog had changed so much. After that day she was always obsessed with trying to get into the chicken run and kill more birds. I had to do a lot of training with her over several months before I could trust her to be out at the same time as the chickens.

Now every thing is 'back to normal'. But I would never go out and leave her and the chickens together.

 

[ChickensRDinos]

I think your story is a good example of why it is important to work on impulse control training rather than just chicken training. You are not going to be able to perfectly prepare a dog for any new situation but with impulse control training you can give them a better chance of being able to not do the first thing that pops into their head when a new situation presents itself and to be able to snap them out of it without agression. Good behavior around prey animals is just one small aspect of this.

I work a lot with "wait" and "leave it" with my dogs in a variety of contexts and also do a lot of food training. My dogs do not eat anything unless they hear their own name and a command. I can leave the room and they will wait. I can tell one to eat and the rest will wait. If I reach my hand into their bowl or grab their snack they will immediately stop. "Leave it" is stop whatever you are doing and sit and touch nothing. This is the only behavior I accept and I have never used a choke or a shock.

But, if you want this to work with something as tempting as fresh prey you have to work on it all the time with in lots of different situations. A lot of bite situations, especially with children, occur when a dog is eating something and if not trained to deal with this it is really not their fault.

Training dogs is not about teaching them whether or not to chase chickens. For me it is about teaching the dogs how to treat things that are mine - and everything is mine.

 

[centrarchid]

jak2002003,

Sometimes when fighting a war a few causalities must be incurred to meet objectives.

Look up history and use of German Short-haired pointers which is not restricted to US. Use as pointers recent and does do not preclude killing capacity / hard mouth. Same dogs (mine) will and have taken on to kill adult raccoons and fox which is not a classic retriever function. Also, losses incurred during training process are more than compensated for by losses prevented later from predators. I do not know how many birds you have or what they are used for but odds are I cull more in a batch with multiple batches per year than you keep in total. That indicates you do not understand what managing losses is about. Also at some point, you are likely to loose more birds to your dog in a single event than I have to my dogs and others over the last three years and that is with larger number of free-ranging juveniles, not hens that can at least put forth a good run.

 

[chichichickapea]

My beagle, Shorty, that killed my chickens was attacked just a few weeks ago by dogs/coyotes/something and left for dead. He had to stay at the vet for a week getting IVs etc. He has been home about 5 weeks and is just getting where he can hold his head up at a normal level and his rt. eye is almost looking like normal (it was looking off to the side)....anyway, he has had a rough few weeks and was just trying to survive. Because of his injuries he has spent more time at home, where before he was off "hunting". I think the attacks on my chickens were a combination of boredom and an easy target....he has never made any move toward them before.

I did put a training collar on him yesterday and gave him the tone twice and he left the coop area just by getting the tone....not really sure why....I did not say anything to him but guess he did get the "look" and the tone. Saw him coming back out to the coop yesterday afternoon and my guineas chased him off.

Decided I would just focus on one dog at a time. My German Shorthair, Hoot, is the more docile....Shorty is the brains, Hoot is the brawn but only when Shorty says its okay. So I thought I would get a grip on Shorty first. One other thing I have noticed is that Shorty has been more aggressive with people since he was attacked....this may only be the tip of the iceberg. Either way, I have got to get him in control because I cannot have him being aggressive to my grandchildren, much less to my chickens.

 

[bigoledude]

I did not imply "the taste of blood" theory that is so often used here. I did once write of a sow that ate some chicks and that the only way we were able to change her appetite away from chicks was to turn her into sausage. What I should have said was, dogs that have killed chickens have a propensity to do so again. Duh!!

Also, the effort it takes to train a chicken-killer to stop killing is waaay more than the average dog owner is gonna be willing to make. And, even if more dog-owners had the desire to do so, most people don't/won't take the time or, put forth the effort to acquire the skills/knowledge to train a dog to the degree it would take to turn a chicken-killer into a trustworthy dog. I'd still like to have a penny for every dead chicken killed by a supposed "trained" dog.

My brother trained many field trial champion retrievers here on our property. I have a pretty good idea of the vast mount of work it takes to train a dog. We've owned dogs that ran amongst the chickens without any problems. These dogs were raised as puppies with chickens and never showed any aggressive behavior toward the chickens.

Regardless of anyone's claims of success in training a dog to quit killing chickens, I maintain my opinion that a chicken killer left alone with the birds, will most likely kill again.

 

[RockerHen]

My Anatolian and lab will not touch chickens in our yard. I could put both of them in the chicken run and they would not touch the chickens. (I've left them in there all day before. They just laid in the shade and ignored the chickens) But if an unfortunate chicken flies into THEIR kennel while they're in it, it gets mouthed and batted to death. Sometimes eaten, sometimes just played with. As long as I keep the birds out of the kennel, there's no killing. It's rather strange.