Dog food questions

[Wifezilla]

Anything made out of corn, wheat or soy is garbage. That includes Science Diet, Hills, and other expensive crap pushed by vets. (Vets make a large profit on these "prescription" foods that contain the same poor ingredients that is in the cheap Walmart dog food)

Dogs did not evolve to eat grains. If you can't feed them raw, your next best bet is to feed them a high protein, low carbohydrate food like Wellness CORE, Innova EVO, Taste of the Wild, BG (Before Grains), etc...

 

[Robin'sBrood]

Quote:
If cost is your concern, I would recommend a good natural food with no ground yellow corn such as
Nutro Max Large Breed Puppy for your pup or Max Large Breed Adult if your dog is an adult, since you didn't specify.
You can also sign up for the frequent buyer program (click on PROGRAMS) that can help out with food costs.

Best wishes!

 

[Robin'sBrood]

Quote:
Read your ingredients list. You want to see a specific meat protein (such as chicken) or a meat protein meal (such as lamb meal) as your first ingredient. You DON'T want to see ground yellow corn, corn grits, etc. as a first ingredient (or as any ingredient, really.) Sometimes weight management and senior foods will have a grain as the first ingredient since their protein levels are lower than regular foods, but I would want to see a highly digestible grain such as rice, oatmeal, or brown rice instead of corn or sorghum. Also, I would stay away from anything that doesn't list the type of animal protein, such as chicken, lamb, venison, fish etc. If you see ingredients such as "meat by-products" or "animal digest" I would avoid that brand of food.

 

[jywel417]

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I can tell you that the vet I work for this is NOT the case. We do tend to be more expensive than the other clinics in the area b/c of overhead costs and personally having lived here forever and had experiences with the other vets, we are one of the best in the area. All that aside, alot of vets deal with Hills b/c they are easy to deal with AND they have one of the best comprehensive prescription diet lines around, and those actually do work. We have some animals who have tested as barely diabetic and often if we put them on a diabetic prescription food they don't need insulin.

I can also tell you that Hills charges vets MORE than they charge other people for their food, at least in our case. We do not have much of a markup on our food at all. We basically cover the foodcost and taxes then pass it along to clients. With the prescription stuff the prices have gotten so bad where these companies have raised prices about 10 times in the past year that it makes it impossible to do much of a mark up on it. I know a 30 lb bag of allergy dog food costs us $70. With their rec mark up it would put the price over 100 and who can really afford/ want to pay that ?! We sell science diet where I work but if ppl ask I tell them what I think, that SD is not my favorite food etc etc etc

 

[Wifezilla]

We have some animals who have tested as barely diabetic and often if we put them on a diabetic prescription food they don't need insulin.

You can get the same result by putting them on raw, or high protein low carb food for a lot less than Hills.

Not all vets are a rip off, but seriously...if a prescription food lists one of the first few ingredient as CORN...yikes!​

 

[jywel417]

oh, i agree totally on the corn thing. And yes, some vets are worse than others, I overreacted to your post and prob shouldn't have lol

sorry. No, personally I am not a fan of hills but we use them b/c they do have an extensive list of rx diets, but we also do have a list of canned high protein/low carb foods that aren't rx that we give ppl so they can do that instead

personally, i wouldn't feed Science Diet but I also know you can get quality foods, like wellness, for the same price, in some cases a little less or a little more, but it pays off in the long run

 

[Mugen]

Thanks folks! I'm skeptic of dog foods. So, I'm also giving cooked liver and kidney along with dried food. I also have killed animals here. There's plenty of bones and ribs for them to eat. It's kinda like supplement.

 

[KotaDVM]

Quote:
You can get the same result by putting them on raw, or high protein low carb food for a lot less than Hills.

Not all vets are a rip off, but seriously...if a prescription food lists one of the first few ingredient as CORN...yikes!

Families need to be careful of feeding raw food diets because of the microorganisms within the meat. If your dog eats raw chicken containing E.Coli or Salmonella, the bacteria will live within the gut and be shed into the dog's environment. For most people this is not a huge concern, but for young children or immuno-suppressed people this is dangerous. Owners must also be careful to feed their dogs a healthy/balanced raw food diet. Wolves in nature not only eat skeletal muscle, but also bones, adipose tissue, and the plant material in the stomachs of their prey. Giving the dog two chicken breasts as a meal will lead to nutritional deficiencies and subsequent problems.

As far as dog food is concerned- I despise the industry overall. The USDA is getting more involved in monitoring these companies, but there is still a lot of work to be done. Some brands of dog food fulfill their purposes of providing dogs with a balanced diet. Others do not. Can a dog live off a dog food with corn as the main ingredient? Yup. Soybean? Yup. These kinds of foods are fine for 90% of the dogs out there (aside from puppies, lactating females, and high end working dogs). Not an ideal way to feed, but no one has been able to come to a better overall solution yet and have it be affordable for everyone.

Vets encourage certain types of food because *gasp* they truly are better then what the owner is currently feeding. If someone is feeding their animal dog food the equivalent of dirt, of course I am going to suggest something better. If someone's dog is suffering from kidney failure of course I am going to suggest a prescription diet, even if it is corn based because it still provides a balanced diet and serves its purpose. Sure there are some crappy veterinarians out there, but give veterinarians and veterinary students a little credit for trying to do what is best for your pet.

 

[Wifezilla]

Owners must also be careful to feed their dogs a healthy/balanced raw food diet. Wolves in nature not only eat skeletal muscle, but also bones, adipose tissue, and the plant material in the stomachs of their prey. Giving the dog two chicken breasts as a meal will lead to nutritional deficiencies and subsequent problems

Can a dog live off a dog food with corn as the main ingredient? Yup. Soybean? Yup. These kinds of foods are fine for 90% of the dogs out there (aside from puppies, lactating females, and high end working dogs). Not an ideal way to feed, but no one has been able to come to a better overall solution yet and have it be affordable for everyone.

I have to disagree with this. A diet high in grains eventually catches up to a dog or cat. This is reflected in the increase in pet obesity, diabetes, liver disease (along the lines of NAFLD) and cancer. My friend's dog is a 9 year old sheltie and the poor thing is dying of lung cancer. LUNG CANCER??? I know Abby wasn't smoking unfiltered Camels and working in an asbestos mine in her spare time. The carbohydrate/cancer connection is very well established (even though the medical community is ignoring it). There are vets that have caught on to this and are warning their clients about the dangers of a long time diet of sugar (which is all that corn, wheat and soy really are once it is digested).

Sure there are some crappy veterinarians out there, but give veterinarians and veterinary students a little credit for trying to do what is best for your pet.

Vets should be held to a higher standard when it comes to animal nutrition. Unfortunately the nutrition portion of vet training is not nearly long enough and often sponsored by pet food manufacturers. If they are prescribing corn, wheat and soy for dogs, they are failing their patients and causing more harm in the long run. Prescription pets foods are very expensive, so for the same price are there are much better options.​

 

[KotaDVM]

Quote:

Can a dog live off a dog food with corn as the main ingredient? Yup. Soybean? Yup. These kinds of foods are fine for 90% of the dogs out there (aside from puppies, lactating females, and high end working dogs). Not an ideal way to feed, but no one has been able to come to a better overall solution yet and have it be affordable for everyone.

I have to disagree with this. A diet high in grains eventually catches up to a dog or cat. This is reflected in the increase in pet obesity, diabetes, liver disease (along the lines of NAFLD) and cancer. My friend's dog is a 9 year old sheltie and the poor thing is dying of lung cancer. LUNG CANCER??? I know Abby wasn't smoking unfiltered Camels and working in an asbestos mine in her spare time. The carbohydrate/cancer connection is very well established (even though the medical community is ignoring it). There are vets that have caught on to this and are warning their clients about the dangers of a long time diet of sugar (which is all that corn, wheat and soy really are once it is digested).

Sure there are some crappy veterinarians out there, but give veterinarians and veterinary students a little credit for trying to do what is best for your pet.

Vets should be held to a higher standard when it comes to animal nutrition. Unfortunately the nutrition portion of vet training is not nearly long enough and often sponsored by pet food manufacturers. If they are prescribing corn, wheat and soy for dogs, they are failing their patients and causing more harm in the long run. Prescription pets foods are very expensive, so for the same price are there are much better options.​

Where on earth are you getting this information? I am a vet student and we just finished my 3 credit small animal nutrition course that was run by one of the top research nutritionist veterinarians in the country. I also have a masters that included nutrient digestibility of forages as part of my research. I am not saying you are right or wrong, but if you have the credible resources to back it up please send it.

I am sorry to hear about your friend's sheltie- but there is no scientific evidence that metastatic pulmonary neoplasms (lung cancer) is caused by eating corn, wheat, or soy. It is very common in boxers and bernese mountain dogs, occurs in animals around 10 years of age, and is caused by tumor emboli spreading by lymphatics and blood vessels. The reason dogs are suffering from all these problems you mentioned is 1) congenital defects of breeding pure breeds 2) owners not feeding animals properly (free feed/treats/people food) and 3) animals living much longer now than they ever used to before (wolves only live on average 6 years in the wild).​