Dog Housebreaking Problems

[PineBurrowPeeps]

I have a 1 year, 3 month old male Newfoundland that I am crazy about. I waited over 4 years to get him with the intent to show and breed him if he got his CH. Literally after waiting over 4 years, within 2 month of having him my entire life changed and I went from having a normal suburb rental house with a backyard and plans to show him, to having a farm on 4 acres that needs tons of work. My entire focus has shifted and had I had ESP and known I would be where I am now, I wouldn't have got him at that point in my life.
But, I already had him when the changes suddenly took place. He was around 6 months old when we made the move, and I got him at 10 weeks. From the time I got him to the time I moved he had only had about 4 accidents total. Then two things happened. We moved, and I started giving him more time between his trips outside as he got older. The thing with this dog that we're seeing is that he had never ever had any sense of holding it. He is like a chicken and just lets go whenever the urge presents itself. And I believe that he knows he's wrong because when he has an accident in the house, out of crate, he will go to the opposite floor you are on in the house to do it, like he's sneaking off. If you're downstairs, he's going to go poo upstairs, if you're upstairs he's going to go poo downstairs, seemingly always in the living room no matter how many times I've used pet smell eliminating enzyme based cleaners on the floor (laminate, it's everywhere in the house, probably 30 years old, it's either that or wide pine, no carpets). He never has a pee accident when he's roaming the house, only poo.
Now as if that isn't bad enough, he's having tons of accidents in his crate as well and he is going out. Now in his crate all bets are off, he pees and poos in there and the crate has been washed many a time with Natures Miracle, etc. He never had a crate accident until we moved.
This situation is so over the top frustrating and is causing fights between my husband and I. I love the dog and I'm one of those people that sees re-homing as a last resort senario but at the same time my husband hates the dog because of the problems and I'm so tired of fighting with him. And even then, no one wants to adopt a dog that's not housebroken so I would still want to sort this out and if I could fix it there would be no reason to re-home him!

He seems to not be able to hold it for anything and we are not expecting him to hold it for long periods of time other than at night in which case he's been going out at around 9pm for the final time and again at anywhere between 5am-7am when he starts howling and we have to hurdle ourselves out of bed and take him out at the first wimper (I mean you have to run) or he's going to go in that crate. Alot of times my husband, being the great guy he is, will even take him out again at around 1:30am-3:30am when he comes home from work and STILL you will hear him howling like he's going to die at as early as 5:30am.
He's been vet checked, no UTI, no worms, no medical issues.
This is getting out of hand and I don't know what to do. Tonight I woke up at 1am to the wonderful aroma of dog poo and had to go clean out his crate and bathe him because when he has an accident in there he then frantically tries to get out of his crate, getting it all over him, the wire of the crate, etc.
His crate is not too big for him. It's just the right size and I'm stumped as to where his "den instinct" went to not soil his den.
Is he were a 5 pound dog this would be an issue, but not a huge one. This is a dog that weighs around 150 pounds and is getting bigger by the day. When he has an accident it's like the nile river or a pile of elephant dung. Not to mention that everytime he has an accident in his crate he gets a bath, yup stuffing 150 pounds of very hairy, smelly dog in my tiny tub is getting ridiculous!
Worse yet, is the fact that he will go having an accident daily or multiple times per day for over a week and then POOF not have a single accident for up to 3 weeks until BAM he's doing it again!

We have another dog, a 7 year old Lab who's housebreaking is meticulous and we trained them both the same way... What gives?!

 

[redhen]

usually dogs that are having that type of problem at that age...there is something else going on...you said he "sneaks off" to mess in the house...but dosent pee in the house....that is a big clue for me....he CAN hold it....there is an emotional problem going on with him...thats the best i can tell ya..because i dont live there with you guys....but...IMO it is emotional....espically..since he was basically trained before you guys moved....i believe you need to go back to the puppy basics....crate....only let him free roam in the house IF you can see him 100% of the time..NEVER let him out of your sight in the house....as for going in the crate....do you have a blanket in there for him to lay on?.....if so.....you HAVE to remove it...*i know it sounds mean*..i had to do it to train my min pin at one point...she kept peeing in her crate on her blankets and wadding them up in the back of the crate(and the crate was not to big for her either)....if he has to lay in his pee for one or 2 nights(of course you clean it VERY well every morning)...they hate to lay in their own pee....she stopped peeing in her crate after like 3 times....also....IF you let a dog out ALL night long..just cause they are crying to go pee...they never REALLY learn how to "hold it" all night long....i have a cousin that did this with her cocker spaniel for 14 yrs!....since she was a pup!....they can and WILL hold it....once they physically can..and your dog is way old enough to hold it all night long...dont let him fool ya...you WILL have some messes in the morning...but...make him conform to YOUR schedule...like last pee time at night is 12 midnight...and he goes again at 6-7 in the morning.....also....dont feed/water him after like 5 pm.....that will help with the peeing at night...(but make sure he gets plenty of water during the daytime...)....hope this helps some!...best of luck to you!...

...I LOVE NEWFIES!

edited to say:...also, if he is outside alot of the time...he will have a harder time to learn inside house potty rules.....say if you had been keeping him outside mostly all day in the summer/spring/fall nice weather...and now that its cold you need to bring him inside....he will be confused for a while....good luck!..

 

[mainchick]

hey there! i work for an animal shelter and one of the many reasons that people give dogs up is housbreaking problems. Some of the tips that I give people to help them are this: regulate his food AND water intake. Make sure that he is fed on a schedule and watered on a schedule. No food after 5-6 pm and no water after 6-7 PM.Offer food 2 times a day and water 4 times a day for the first little while. You really have to go back to the very basics with this guy to get him properly trained. Absolutely no freedom in the house whatsoever. Don't crate him constantly, just leash him up and have him be by your side all the time. I often attatch a leash to my pants loops and that helps keep my hands free. when you can't have him with you he should be outside or crated so he won't fall into the habit of using the inside as a toilet.
At night, is there any way that you can confine him to a laundry or kitchen with a doggie door? Maybe even the garage with yard access if it is warm and comfortable. the problem with soiling his crate seems almost like an anxiety issue to me. If you can get him a doggie door somehow and teach him to use it it might help him and keep him with you so you don't have to rehome him. I would definately talk to a trainer/behaviorist someone who is CPDT certified. you can find a trainer in your area by checking the APDT website. Also talk to the breeder for tips. A good breeder will help support their clients and want to keep the dogs and owners together. Talk to your vet about anxiety and see if you can medicate him for an few months to relieve his issues until he is okay with all the changes in his life. Sometimes diet plays a role in potty problems too. Are you feeding a good quality food with minimal corn, wheat and soy? Dogs don't need ANY of those ingredients and food with them in it can cause unnessary waste in the stool. For stress, you can try DAP "dog appeasing pheromones" it's a plug in scent that can help relieve stress and help dogs adjust and sleep better. The trainer shouldn't cost more than a $100.00 -200.00 to come to your home and help out. It's worth it to keep the peace and keep your dog. It's all about structure and schedule. Good Luck!

 

[redhen]

also...i found that i can feed my 2 Saints almost any people food(mixed with their dog food) and they are fine with it..no tummy problems at all!....BUT..man!..my Dane is bad!..if i give him anything other than dog food he gets the runs and has accidents....so....beware what you are feeding him...

...

 

[hcammack]

I agree with the posts above we are training a new puppy and she is not having these problems because she is either with us or in her crate. We trained both her and our older dog to call us to let them out with a bell its great they both picked it up in a week! just ring the bell every time you let him or take him out and use his nose to push against it and get it to ring. Thats just whats worked for my family.
Henry

 

[bwebb7]

Yeah, its back to basics! He doesn't know when his life is gonna change again.
I would also reccommend an excersize pen to have him in when he's not in his crate or outside and remember when you let him out of his crate he needs to go outside and go out with him. Don't let him feel like he's being "thrown out" make it automatic for him too. And remember the poopy praise and the pee pee praise when he goes out!
and yes put his food down and take it up in 15 min- the next time you put it down he'll gobble it but remember take it up in 15 min. get him to be picky about eating, waking and pottying.
He seems very insecure-be his rock and be regimented!
Best Wishes

 

[mamabird]

Back to puppy housebreaking 101. I agree that you should start from scratch. There could be so many things going on...but if you HAVE to rehome him - call the breeder. If you bought from a reputable breeder, they would probably welcome a phone call about the dog and discuss the issues that you are having. Do you have a contract with the breeder? We breed labs and if one of our puppies doesn't work out for the new owner, it is in our breeding contract that we be contacted and have the option of taking the dog back. We have received a few calls about puppy issues, but have only had to take back one dog (he was about 6 months, and the owner's living situation changed). The other thing - even though the dog is 150#, it is just a large puppy. They grow fast, but mature slow. He may look like a dog, but remember that he is about as mature as a 4 year old kid! He should be housebroken by now, but with all the changes - I would simply start from scratch.

Lastly, if you aren't going to be able to show him and get his CH like you had intended, consider neutering. He may be peeing in the house now, but he shouldn't be marking everywhere...yet. Were his parents show dogs? Are they OFA checked? Any history of health issues with the parents (newfies sometimes have skin and/or thyroid issues)? You can't get OFA certification until he is 2, but you could have a preliminary x-ray done to check his hips. If they are good - great! If not, you wouldn't want to breed anyway, so neuter...now, before he figures out what those "things" are for. Breeding is done to better the breed - trust me, you DON'T make any money by breeding if you do it right. Our last litter (only 3 puppies) , we had to have an emergency c-section / spay on the mom, and by the time we did that and paid for aftercare, food, wormings/shots, and all the other expenses associated with the puppies, we were in the hole almost $1000 bucks! We had happy, healthy puppies and mom is doing great - but if you plan on something going right, it never does! Make sure breeding is what you want...it's a lot of work for not much $ return if done right. GOOD LUCK!

 

[PineBurrowPeeps]

Quote:
Thanks. I realize that breeding is done to better the breed and that I'm not going to make money on it. Both of his parents are/were CH showdogs, both passed their OFA (his father had passed away about 2 years prior to his litter being welped, it was AI from stored semen). His father didn't die from any genetic health issues, there was a serious car/truck accident and he was too injured from the crash.
The contract I have certainly says that I need to notify the breeder if I need to re-home and I know that, I require that in the animals I adopt out myself.
I spent over 4 years searching/researching and waiting for a quality Newf, I did my homework and made sure that there were no health problems with the parents and things. I was crazy thorough, I actually drove the breeders crazy with my endless questions and researched OFA numbers, registration numbers, etc.
I have thought about nuetering him and storing some semen just in case. I have thought about trying to find someone who wanted to co-own him but that sometimes gets wishy washy. I have thought about having him collected and then adopting him out. My thoughts have certainly been dominated by plugging through this and keeping him though.
I also realize that he's very much a puppy, VERY much. My husband doesn't get that part, but I do. Big body, baby brain. My husband cycles between telling and begging me to just re-home him, and telling me he understands and if I want to keep him we'll keep trying to get him trained. It's driving me crazy.

So last night at 1am I cleaned him up, cleaned his crate, took him out to go (he peed and poo'd), and put him back up in his crate and went to bed. I woke up at 7am to the sounds of him moving around in his crate in the next room and the eye opening aroma of dog doo, again. Another bath, another scrub of the foor, crate, etc. More tears from me and yelling from DH.

He doesn't have a blanket in his crate. My dogs have never liked having blankets in their crates and just dig at them anyway, so I don't put them down.

 

[mamabird]

Jenna - Sounds like you did your homework! I agree about co-owning...it sounds like a nightmare. What about getting someone to show him for you if you don't have time right now? That way he would get some time in the ring, and you could see how he is going to do without you having to drop everything to take him to shows.

What are you feeding him?? Is there any way he is getting into something that is causing GI problems? If he has separation anxiety, the stress of being away from you could be causing him to go at night in the crate. Let's see...think like him...if he doesn't like the crate, he poos in the crate, he gets out of the crate and spends time with you. (positive reinforcement for a negative behavior) There's an answer somewhere, it's just a matter of finding it! As far as DH - don't mean to be mean, but if you are the one doing all the work - he doesn't have too much room to complain. You sure are a dedicated Newfie owner...I wanted one years ago - until I had to groom one.

Hang in there, and again - good luck!

 

[wendy]

I have always had a dog since I was a small child. Never had problems house training a puppy/dog. except: My male doxie and another male mix. They would sneak off and hike there leg, even if I just took them out. I guess marking there territory. My MIL has the same problem with her male dog he is 7 years old, always done the same thing:/

Best of luck