Dog Spay and Neuter: Discussion

[horsejody]

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You're right. Let's not tar everybody with the same brush. Please remember that it goes both ways.
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Not the same. I am referring to one person making apparently uninformed comments.

And I'm referring to the many, many poorly bred horses and dogs that I have seen getting ribbons in show rings as a reward for exagerrated traits and their breeders that claim they are "improving" the breed.

Now, back on topic....

Responsible people that leave their dogs/cats unaltered protect and confine their animals, and look out for the welfare of all of the animals' offspring, regardless of pedigree. Many people know that they have no desire risk having puppies/kittens and do what they think is right when deciding to spay/neuter. Sometimes a purebred animal is the right pet to keep or breed, and sometimes a mixed breed animal is the right pet to keep or breed. Hopefully, anybody breeding animals has enough brains to breed for health, intelligence and utility, rather than for current show fads or to show their kids the miracle of life.

 

[MomtoSyd&Emma]

deleted my comment because it just doesnt seem to matter lol

we all have opinions and they wont change just by someone on a forum typing their opinion lol

we all will just have to agree to disagree!

 

[gritsar]

I'm still learning about our breed, more every day. I in no way consider myself an expert, that's why I turn to the experts for knowledge. The experts being professional dog trainers (including a few I have met here on BYC), our VET and our breeder, who is a far cry from a BYB.
Our boys will remain intact for the forseeable future and we WILL remain responsible for them for all of their natural lives.

 

[Jamie_Dog_Trainer]

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I may have missed it, but since I did complain about not being able to put my dog out when she was in heat I am assuming it is me

. If so, I did not say she lived outside, she would go out spend time outside in her kennel. She lives in the house but she would rather be out(and with 7 children I am not staying out with her which is why she ended up in the house, miserable). I just don't feel I should need to alter my life, on my property, because people are irresponsible and "lose" their intact dog. I just think I shouldn't need to alter MY life on MY property because of someone else, and that applies to more than just dogs....

I don't know if I was referencing you or not. I do apologize if I sounded harsh, wasn't intended to in the least. I totally get what you are saying though. I also have issues with dogs on my property without their owners and killing my chickens.

In fact just recently got in a near-legal dispute when my GSD defended my chickens from a Doberman who was in pursuit of them. I had no idea if the dog was a stray or what. I didn't stop to look check and see if the owner was around, when my birds lives are at stake I don't feel the need to ask questions first. My dog did his job. They tried to stick me with the 700.00 Vet bill but I refused to pay it. They called Animal Control and when the officer arrived he was on our side since the incident started on our property.

When the ACO went back to them he told the Dobie's owners that they are lucky the dog survived because we were within our rights to choose to shoot the dog. Instead we used non leathal action and they should feel lucky to have not had the dog shot. They were quite upset because they deem my GSD vicious but hes NOT at all he's just doing what I wanted him to do and stopped my flock from being slaughtered.

I digress...

Lose dogs are a huge issue here and I get sick and tired of it as well. My point with what you quoted above was that it takes two responsible parties to maintain dogs from two different households. Of course you know that

 

[QuailHollow]

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You're right. Let's not tar everybody with the same brush. Please remember that it goes both ways.
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Not the same. I am referring to one person making apparently uninformed comments.

We disagree - and always will.

 

[Jamie_Dog_Trainer]

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You're right. Let's not tar everybody with the same brush. Please remember that it goes both ways.


Not the same. I am referring to one person making apparently uninformed comments.

We disagree - and always will.

I think its fine to disagree, thats why I started this thread. So people could get a lot of opinions to form their own and learn about spay and neuter. The point is to learn and share, NOT argue.

 

[Morgan7782]

That is what I love about people, there are so many different view, EACH based on personal experience.. So many different answers. I have a friend who has a beautiful bluenose pit bull, papered and everything, but not shown. He isn't sterotypical pitbull, real sweet and goofy, but my friend breeds him. We just never talk about that topic lol.

As Peter Griffin says:

"Well, sir, while I may not agree with what you are saying, I will defend to the death your right to say it!"

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

Ah...the vocal genius of Peter Griffin!

 

[adoptedbyachicken]

I have spent many hours looking into this topic, and for many breeds and uses of dogs. The down sides to spay and neuter are becoming well known, and the up sides are being debunked. There simply is no good reason for **that dog or cat** to have the surgery done. I don't agree with the cancer risks being reduced as noted. Of course if that part is no longer there the risk of that part getting cancer is gone, so does that mean we take out all parts that tend towards cancer?

The down side is the loss of all the other important things the sex hormones do which is only very recently been studied in depth. For large breed dogs many joint and bone issues thought to be genetic or diet related are now known to be due to desexing. The loss of the drives related to many instinctive behaviours does effect the working life of dogs really used for what they were bred, something working dog people have long known but has been held back from 'pet' owners in the ideal of greater good for the population of dogs overall.

The one gem in spay/neuter is the dead end for propagation of the species for that individual. This is easy to acheive in many other ways and I applaude those that are doing so. Promoting responsible dog ownership rather than hurting the indivudual dog with early spay/neuter propoganda or even breeders doing it themselves (as young as 9 weeks in some cases!!) is going to more for the betterment of dogs in both this generation and onward. Seriously if you sell a puppy to someone and your so concerned about their lack of knowing where the dog will be and what it will be doing that it could breed without the owner knowing are you not also concerned that the pup will get hit by a car? Run loose and kill wildlife or livestock? Or just be a gabage spreading hated mutt of the city? I think accidental breeding is the least of the irresponsible dog ownership issues!

The Vets are not being helpful in this for the most part. They are still spreading the myths that this a cure all in many cases. Those that are willing to do vasectomy and tubal ligation are rare. For those of us running multi working dogs who need to be loose and working regardless of where they are in cycle these procedures are invaluabe in the dogs that we feel are not breeding quality, or just in control of population for those of us who choose not to breed. My livestock guarding dogs are loose working 24/7 and only the rescues that were done before I got them are spay/neuter. I waited till 2 years for one female as I could not find a Vet local that would do a tubal for me, then had her spay and already she has bone complications. Their suggestion? Hormones! Go figure.

I should have drove her the 6 hours to a more enlightened Vet. For all those considering the huge increased risk for young surgery at least find your pet a Vet that will do only the tubes and not take vital organs out. I have talked to many breeders about this, some have changed from pediatric spay to just tubals to protect pets from breeding.

 

[SundownWaterfowl]

Bone and joint problems (cruciate rupture, hip dysplasia, and bone cancer)
Spayed dogs have increases in three types of bone and joint problems: torn knee ligaments (anterior cruciate ligament or ACL), hip dysplasia, and bone cancer. ACL injuries are common in spayed dogs of every size. Hip dysplasia and bone cancer (osteosarcoma), are common only in large dogs. Some veterinarians believe bone problems occur in spayed dogs because their bones grow larger than those of intact dogs. The larger growth occurs because estrogen, which normally tells the bones to stop growing, is not present to give the stop-growth signal. It appears that larger bone size predisposes these pets to bone and joint cancer. It also appears that the earlier a pet is spayed the greater the likelihood of bone cancer.

http://www.pethealth101.com/reproduction/spaying.shtml


That is interested adoptedbyachicken. I wonder how hard it is to find a vet that does tubals.