Dog Spay and Neuter: Discussion

[redhen]

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SO true! My male Saint is SOOOO much more better looking than the one i saw on the westminster show...(i'm serious)..BUT..in a breeders eyes..hed be low quality...
Thats why i say... mind your business about MY dog.... if i want to breed him and hes low quality..i will. Because your "high" quality saint is darn ugly to ME!
Anyways... all my dogs are fixed....

 

[KDbeads]

I am a rescue. That being said you should know my opinion on this....

However, I have absolutely NO problem with responsible breeders who are breeding for the advancement of the particular breed. Our first basset, our first basset rescue actually, came from a very good breeder and she has been a wonderful companion. She was spayed as soon as we could get her in at 7 months and yes she has a mild form of spay incontinence, it's manageable, we don't complain and will not complain. Considering what she came from when we got her, this little thing is a mild annoyance, not a cause to go screaming that spaying is horribly wrong.

Our other rescues that still live here because no one wants them?
I have two puppy mill stud bassets. One of which was in so many fights that he has puncture wounds through several sections of his penis. The other only weighed in at 30 pounds or so when I picked him up at the shelter, almost HALF what he should have weighed. Both were night bin drop offs and both were on the kill list when I was called, having mere hours because they were no longer wanted. They will NEVER leave my home, they are permanent residents because I will NOT let them be treated that horribly again. Both are neutered. And for the record the one with the fight wounds has severe behavior issues relating to those fights, not from being neutered, in fact he has calmed down since the neuter.

The next 2 fosters are a pair, one a champion basset offspring and another a puppy mill basset. No one wanted them. They were raised with a family until 8 years old and tossed away because the family literally didn't want them anymore because they needed normal every day type of attention. One was blind, the other has arthritis and both were heartwom positive. Both spayed/neutered.

We won't even bring up how many litters of puppies I've placed because someone thought it would be a good lesson for their kids to see the 'miracle of birth'

Then there are the cats that stay here. All 8 of them. Fixed as soon as the vet would agree (6 months) and they are thriving. Even the one I was told would not survive past 8 months old.... she's 12 now with no effects from being spayed at 6 months.

Feral cats and dogs in this area are out of control, they are shot on sight, we have had too many rabies confirmations from these feral dogs along with area wide parvo outbreaks every few months. The feral cats leave kittens everywhere, more dead kittens in the streets than you'd ever want to see.

I've had to rescue too many. If it's NOT a responsible breeder, then they need to spay/neuter. Period.

 

[redhen]

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again..it ALL comes down to people being responsible for their animals pups/kittens...
sadly..most people arent... and that does incluse high breeders.

 

[Skyesrocket]

The next 2 fosters are a pair, one a champion basset offspring and another a puppy mill basset. No one wanted them. They were raised with a family until 8 years old and tossed away because the family literally didn't want them anymore because they needed normal every day type of attention. One was blind, the other has arthritis and both were heartwom positive. Both spayed/neutered.

I think you just gave a perfect definition of "COLD HEARTED". How does a person justify to themselves that kind of treatment to an elderly, blind dog?​

 

[Redyre Rotties]

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The BREEDER decides. No one else, and no one else is responsible for the state of breeds EXCEPT the breeders. The breeders select the breeding stock, select the homes for the puppies, they decide who is shown, and who is bred.

You will always have "trend setters" (sometimes good, sometimes not so good) and "followers" who will breed to the top winning dog no matter the pedigree or phenotype.

gritsar, before you decide on all AKC GSDs you should attend a few shows and watch adult dogs in condition move. The recent trend is towards a more moderate rear, which is a very good thing IMO.

What is wrong with Pugs? Yes, it is a round head push-faced breed. Nope, they don't tolerate heat well, but for toy dogs, they really have a minimum of health issues and delightful personalities. (which is what they have been bred for for CENTURIES).

Now, I might agree with you on the Bulldog. I have exhibited a Bulldog in the past. IMO this breed has gone way past the point where it might have been able to do its job. There is no heat tolerance whatsoever. That being said, breeding and showing purebred dogs is a HOBBY. Bulldogs are now companion animals, not working dogs. Their work has been outlawed for a very long time. Many fanciers did not want to see this grand old breed go extinct, so now they are bred for the "sour mug" and the personality, and they ARE adorable.

Personally, I am much more disturbed by dogs that live in awful conditions than I am by the extremes that can be found in the show dog world.

JMO as always.

 

[MomtoSyd&Emma]

YourLinkGoesHere
Quote:
The BREEDER decides. No one else, and no one else is responsible for the state of breeds EXCEPT the breeders. The breeders select the breeding stock, select the homes for the puppies, they decide who is shown, and who is bred.

You will always have "trend setters" (sometimes good, sometimes not so good) and "followers" who will breed to the top winning dog no matter the pedigree or phenotype.

gritsar, before you decide on all AKC GSDs you should attend a few shows and watch adult dogs in condition move. The recent trend is towards a more moderate rear, which is a very good thing IMO.

What is wrong with Pugs? Yes, it is a round head push-faced breed. Nope, they don't tolerate heat well, but for toy dogs, they really have a minimum of health issues and delightful personalities. (which is what they have been bred for for CENTURIES).

Now, I might agree with you on the Bulldog. I have exhibited a Bulldog in the past. IMO this breed has gone way past the point where it might have been able to do its job. There is no heat tolerance whatsoever. That being said, breeding and showing purebred dogs is a HOBBY. Bulldogs are now companion animals, not working dogs. Their work has been outlawed for a very long time. Many fanciers did not want to see this grand old breed go extinct, so now they are bred for the "sour mug" and the personality, and they ARE adorable.

Personally, I am much more disturbed by dogs that live in awful conditions than I am by the extremes that can be found in the show dog world.

JMO as always.

The breed that disturbs me the most is the Pekingnese (I am sure I spelt that wrong) but they have bred those poor dogs to meet their standards so much that they waddle to walk, cant breathe and they just look miserable. I am all for a well bred dog, I just feel that breeding to make smaller, or flatter faces etc.. just is not what a dog should be. I love small dogs, large dogs etc... but I just cant understand making dogs that look miserable.

 

[Redyre Rotties]

MomtoSyd&Emma :

The breed that disturbs me the most is the Pekingnese (I am sure I spelt that wrong) but they have bred those poor dogs to meet their standards so much that they waddle to walk, cant breathe and they just look miserable. I am all for a well bred dog, I just feel that breeding to make smaller, or flatter faces etc.. just is not what a dog should be. I love small dogs, large dogs etc... but I just cant understand making dogs that look miserable.

I have also exhibited several of these little dogs. I wonder how many you have had a personal relationship with? These dogs have been bred for HUNDREDS of years solely as toy companions. "Sleeve dogs" in Imperial China. They have never been required to be athletes. They can breathe just fine! Properly bred ones have delightful personalities. They are one of my favorite toy breeds.​

 

[MomtoSyd&Emma]

Quote:
I have also exhibited several of these little dogs. I wonder how many you have had a personal relationship with? These dogs have been bred for HUNDREDS of years solely as toy companions. "Sleeve dogs" in Imperial China. They have never been required to be athletes. They can breathe just fine! Properly bred ones have delightful personalities. They are one of my favorite toy breeds.

I have been around show dogs, I have heard them breathe, breathing to me shouldnt sound like something breathing through cotton, it should be normal thing not sound like a chore. As you stated in your previous post its an opinion and that is mine, I LOVE Rotties, I think that they are bred to be gorgeous dogs that can breathe lol

 

[bagendhens]

i agree with redyre...
i also wanted to add that to me "proven worthy" is about not only meeting a physical criteria (if im breeding a chihuahua im going to breed one that looks like a chihuahua should, not one that looks like a min pin!) but also PROVING themselves worthy in other feilds...
if you have a breed bred to work, do something related to that job with your dog to "prove it"

redyre carts with her rotties (amont other things) and since thats one of the many thigns rotties were originally bred to do that to me is absolutly wonderfull...

if you want to breed livestock guardians, breeding a house pry who lives in the city and hasnt even seen a chicken isnt exactly proving its quality...is it?
if your breed is a COMPANION breed temperment is the only real way to "prove" your dog, prive it by getting your therapy team certs and visiting sick children...
if your breed is a ratter like the jrt, do earth trials...
hearders in the city...why not do agility...

to me its very important to have some kind of experienced set of eyes check your dogs over for a physical flaw...cause lets face it when you look at your own dog its PERFECT no matter how it looks lol...
however i dont feel simple "good looks" in the ring is enough, especially cinsidering the ring has changed so many breeds over time...however doing SOMETHING with your dog, along with proper temperment and HEALTH testing and understanding your dogs pedigree, thats what begins to make a dog worthy of breeding, whether its the world champion great dane or your little companion chihuahua...

least in my opinion.

my cresties for example...
there a TOY breed now bred for companionship only...
But i want to see the breed retain some of that instinct that brought them across the ocean, so over the summer we got to the occasional open lure coursing event that has earth dog aspects...its unnofficial, no ribbons or points but its fun and amazing to see these little dogs open up and run the way they were origionally created to...because their companions also i do therapy visits with them, we go to the childrens ward at our local hospital...
weve been around the ring a few times for fun but that to me is certainly not the only way to prove a dog worthy of breeding...and confirmation alone to me is not very impressive.

 

[patandchickens]

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This is so so true! Really really. You can't trust just your own judgement.

Also I think health should probably be made a higher priority in many cases. Not only the animal's own health, but its relatives and progeny's health. There are so many genetic or genetically-influenced unsoundnesses and diseases in dogs these days, it may keep the vets' bank accounts in good shape LOL but I think it's a real shame and totally unnecessary to have so many gimpy/wheezy/itchy/etc dogs being produced.

Totally agree with Redyre Rotties that each breeder has to make the decision for themselves what their breeding criteria/goals are, though. But I strongly feel that it needs to be a difficult decision that results in relatively FEW dogs being bred, as opposed to 'enh, sure, my doggie is just fine, let's breed him or her'.

Pat