Dog Spay and Neuter: Discussion

[horsejody]

Quote:
I don't think that only "show" animals should be reproduced. Don't get me wrong, we spay and neuter. Irresponsible people are the reason for the pet over population problem. Some show dogs shouldn't be bred. Some of them look ridiculous in the show ring with their over exagerrated features. It's disgusting that those dogs win. The horse world has the same problem. People that consider themselves show breeders and judges create exaggerated features and ruin the breed. You state that your own dog is aggressive and needs supervision so he won't wander. It's your business if you decide to breed him, but many people would consider that a dog with behaviour problems. It's all a matter of opinion and perspective. Personally, when I get a dog, I'm looking for an individual that may or may not have papers. Papers are only worth anything if you show dogs. After all, the dog can't read them anyway.

 

[gritsar]

Quote:
I shoulda pointed out that I was speaking hypothetically. In a world where only "perfect specimens" could be bred, it would be up to a individual's preference what constituted a perfect specimen; so it would be flawed, as we all have our own opinions of what is perfect. Let's say the breeder has the AKC standard to judge by, but the standard was written by people, so again it's slanted by opinion.

"gritsar, before you decide on all AKC GSDs you should attend a few shows and watch adult dogs in condition move. The recent trend is towards a more moderate rear, which is a very good thing IMO".
I have been to quite a few shows, as much as we have available in the local area. Still don't like the AKC's version of the GSD and that's an opinion I've held for a long time, way before we got our own GSDs. I will agree that it's a good thing they are moving away from the sloped rear.
The problem I have with the pug is the same problem I have with persian and himalayan cats. Stop smushing their faces in for goodness sake! They need to breathe! It would very nice if their eyes were not prone to popping out while you're at it.
Bulldogs I agree with you on, 100%.
JMHO

 

[gritsar]

Quote:
That's it in a nutshell. Just because someone doesn't spay or neuter doesn't mean that they aren't "responsible" pet owners. If that chance y'all keep talking about were to happen and one of my boys were to get out, I would be VERY responsible for anything that happened while they were loose.

 

[rebelcowboysnb]

Quote:
I love that... I will have to remember that one.

 

[bantylover]

My dogs and cats are all spayed and neutered. We have just gotten one female pup who we will not spay at this time, but she is a show dog and if she does not do something to prove her breed by the time she is old enough to breed, we will have her spayed with no litters out of her. Not only to prevent unwanted puppies but to preserve the pureness of her breed. Responsible breeding is huge! Coming from a person who lives in the country and there have been five puppies dropped off in our area this spring! I can't care for them all and it is not fair that we have to be the ones to put them down or pay the rescue to take them.

My brother has wild farm cats all over the place and they are all interbred now and produce crippled and crazy cats and going to his place in the spring is not pleasant, there are screaming cats everywhere!

Very sad deal, but I'm sure as you know, someone has to deal with it in the end!

 

[redhen]

Quote:
I shoulda pointed out that I was speaking hypothetically. In a world where only "perfect specimens" could be bred, it would be up to a individual's preference what constituted a perfect specimen; so it would be flawed, as we all have our own opinions of what is perfect. Let's say the breeder has the AKC standard to judge by, but the standard was written by people, so again it's slanted by opinion.

"gritsar, before you decide on all AKC GSDs you should attend a few shows and watch adult dogs in condition move. The recent trend is towards a more moderate rear, which is a very good thing IMO".
I have been to quite a few shows, as much as we have available in the local area. Still don't like the AKC's version of the GSD and that's an opinion I've held for a long time, way before we got our own GSDs. I will agree that it's a good thing they are moving away from the sloped rear.
The problem I have with the pug is the same problem I have with persian and himalayan cats. Stop smushing their faces in for goodness sake! They need to breathe! It would very nice if their eyes were not prone to popping out while you're at it.
Bulldogs I agree with you on, 100%.
JMHO

Yup..My persian came from a "show" breeder.... and let me tell you.....she cant even play without snorting and grunting and huffing and puffing like 300lb sumo wrestler...she has NO nose...literally. When gets to really playing and starts her snorting and grunting..my other cats just all kinda stop and stare at her.. like... "What IS that thing, mom???" I'm not playing with her..Shes some kind of freak... "

I'll have to video it sometime...cracks us all up every time...

 

[gritsar]

Quote:
I shoulda pointed out that I was speaking hypothetically. In a world where only "perfect specimens" could be bred, it would be up to a individual's preference what constituted a perfect specimen; so it would be flawed, as we all have our own opinions of what is perfect. Let's say the breeder has the AKC standard to judge by, but the standard was written by people, so again it's slanted by opinion.

"gritsar, before you decide on all AKC GSDs you should attend a few shows and watch adult dogs in condition move. The recent trend is towards a more moderate rear, which is a very good thing IMO".
I have been to quite a few shows, as much as we have available in the local area. Still don't like the AKC's version of the GSD and that's an opinion I've held for a long time, way before we got our own GSDs. I will agree that it's a good thing they are moving away from the sloped rear.
The problem I have with the pug is the same problem I have with persian and himalayan cats. Stop smushing their faces in for goodness sake! They need to breathe! It would very nice if their eyes were not prone to popping out while you're at it.
Bulldogs I agree with you on, 100%.
JMHO

Yup..My persian came from a "show" breeder.... and let me tell you.....she cant even play without snorting and grunting and huffing and puffing like 300lb sumo wrestler...she has NO nose...literally. When gets to really playing and starts her snorting and grunting..my other cats just all kinda stop and stare at her.. like... "What IS that thing, mom???" I'm not playing with her..Shes some kind of freak... "

I'll have to video it sometime...cracks us all up every time...

I love KiKi, with all my heart. She's a perfect specimen in looks. Also, dumber than a box of hammers.

 

[KDbeads]

Quote:

I think you just gave a perfect definition of "COLD HEARTED". How does a person justify to themselves that kind of treatment to an elderly, blind dog?


"Well, since the divorce I just haven't felt like keeping up with all their problems, I stopped the shots and heartguard 2 years ago but they should be fine. We don't ever see fleas on them but we make them stay out side since the divorce, they used to sleep in the bed with us. And Sally, well, she can't handle anything since she lost her sight so we haven't let her in since the surgery [2 years before]......."
Was not my first rescue like this and won't be my last. It's disgusting. And.... I find out they bought more bassets a few weeks after I took in the older pair so that they could breed.

I had a call this afternoon asking if I could take 4 pregnant cats

 

[kaddidle]

I have worked for as a veterinary assistant and I do animal rescue and have to deal with pet overpopulation firsthand. I also work with "problem" dogs to socialize them and retrain behavioral issues and have dealt with a lot of aggressive dogs.

There are statistics to show that unneutered male dog is 2.6 times more likely to bite and my experience has backed that up. Although I can think of a few exceptions, most serious dog bites that I have seen (and the most serious one I have received) have come from unaltered dogs. The dogs that I've seen the most aggression between were have been unaltered dogs of the same sex. It gets especially bad in the spring when females start going into heat.

I've also seen female dogs die of pyometra.

I do know some responsible breeders and showers who have unaltered dogs, but all of them have their dogs altered once they retire from being bred or being shown.

I also think that early spay-neutering is great. We didn't do it at the veterinary practice where I worked but I've seen it done on puppies and kittens in rescue. They bounce back from surgery almost immediately and often don't even require stitches since the incision is so tiny. I've seen them wake up from anesthesia and start playing. Also, the rescue doesn't have to worry about owners that don't spay or neuter their pets and let them breed. The worst thing in rescue is to adopt a puppy or kitten out to someone only to have them come back a year later with a fresh batch of puppies and kittens from the animal that they adopted from you.

 

[Rare Feathers Farm]

Quote:
I don't think that only "show" animals should be reproduced. Don't get me wrong, we spay and neuter. Irresponsible people are the reason for the pet over population problem. Some show dogs shouldn't be bred. Some of them look ridiculous in the show ring with their over exagerrated features. It's disgusting that those dogs win. The horse world has the same problem. People that consider themselves show breeders and judges create exaggerated features and ruin the breed. You state that your own dog is aggressive and needs supervision so he won't wander. It's your business if you decide to breed him, but many people would consider that a dog with behaviour problems. It's all a matter of opinion and perspective. Personally, when I get a dog, I'm looking for an individual that may or may not have papers. Papers are only worth anything if you show dogs. After all, the dog can't read them anyway.

I do a lot of equine rescues so I know exactly what you're talking about...I do agree that responsible pet owners should have the choice but how many people are irresponsible and reproducing animals?

Breeding = selective reproducing to better the breed
Reproducing = non-selective reproducing with no betterment to the breed (like puppy mills)

Yes, I did say Brodee is more aggressive to our other dog. NOT people...and Cash usually brings it upon himself by bossing him around. Part of him climbing out of the kennel, as we discovered is due to our neighbor kids' new toy--a shot gun! They shoot it off for HOURS and it freaks Brodee out, so he climbed out of the kennel and ran away.

For a Borzoi, he's exceptionally sweet towards us, our cats, chickens, ducks, horses and obeys while supervised. Most other show Borzoi cannot even be off the leash because they don't listen (are not trained). It took my husband and I literally SIX MONTHS of working with him DAILY to get him to come when called, lay down, sit down, stay and then just for fun to play dead. Borzoi are not known for their rocket scientist brains but they are trainable to some degree. We felt it was our responsibility to at least train him that much as our pet and for his own safety.

Unfortunately, I have a contract to keep him in-tact for now. He did get his championship and another invite to the Eukanuba next year so until then, he's got to be in-tact.

Our mutt dog, Cash is neutered. We saw no reason to keep him unaltered--we had no plans for him to breed and did not want him wandering. I personally love mutts the most...they seem to have less health issues, more brains, more personality...and we (DH & myself) have already decided no more show dogs and no more in-tact dogs after Brodee. It's just too much responsibility and we're responsible people, IMO.

As far as the show world in horses....I find it quite ironic that halter horses are bred toward a certain standard of perfection (breed by breed basis to represent what a "perfect" conformation horse of that breed should look like) yet most are not ride-able due to too much muscle mass (like QHs), no brains (some breeds), too small of hooves (a lot of breeds, QHs included), spastic personalities, etc yet--these are supposed to be the "perfect" examples of their breed!? LOL How does that work? LOL

Cash, our altered mutt (Anatolian x Border Collie):

Brodee (in-tact until next year):