Dog training question: place vs. bed vs. crate vs. target vs. ??

[dainerra]

in most venues you aren't necessarily competing against the other dogs but against a base score and yourself. yes, the highest scoring/fastest dogs will get the blue ribbon but all dogs that meet the minimum requirements will qualify. And that green qualifying ribbon is the one that earns your title.

 

[ShrekDawg]

dogs can compartmentalize very well. and not all dogs go into that ramped over-excited state in agility. Much of that is actually encouraged by their owners to get a dog that goes full out for speed but just as many owners discourage such behavior in their dogs and do just fine.

That's a good point, thanks. I forgot about that, the owners encouraging terrible behavior is part of what I don't like about it. But I guess I don't have to do that ha

And is it kind of like how sled dogs or people that do joring with their dogs (whether skijoring or bikejoring, or canicross, etc.) Or even something like weight pull get crazy excited when they get hooked up and can run run run and pull pull pull in that harness but then when they're not in it they don't pull on walks and can be calm? Like they can learn when to pull or not? Or like how police and protection or bite sports dogs know to bite the sleeve or the bad guy but aren't necessarily "aggressive" in the home? Some are of course harder or more civil and may be aggressive (am I using those right?) but some can let children crawl all over them.

They do seem to know the difference?

in most venues you aren't necessarily competing against the other dogs but against a base score and yourself. yes, the highest scoring/fastest dogs will get the blue ribbon but all dogs that meet the minimum requirements will qualify. And that green qualifying ribbon is the one that earns your title.

Is that why they say it was a qualifying run or not? I watched part of an agility competition once and they said after most if it qualified or not. I didn't realize qualifying and winning the blue ribbon were separate.

 

[blufangirl]

I am a dog trainer and have always used place as a freedom stay. Meaning you can do whatever you want as long as you are quiet and at least two feet stay on the place at all times. It works will for longer time period out of the way stays such as when guest come over etc. I would think of the bed to be the same as a place stay. Once a dog understands a basic place stay it can be used on many different items. I new a dog that used a towel as a place stay for traveling.
I use a house or crate stay for full confinement when I need no chance they will screw up and leave it. I.E. we leave the house or have people over that are afraid of the dogs etc.
As far as training marks and standing on odd objects such as buckets etc. To me that is more trick type training and I train to the mark first then translate that to any object location etc. Teach a basic stop on the mark then increase difficulty.
Dogs can learn a lot of similar commands as long as it is focused training start easy and increase difficulty. I like to train commands that can mean many different things once learned.

 

[ShrekDawg]

I am a dog trainer and have always used place as a freedom stay. Meaning you can do whatever you want as long as you are quiet and at least two feet stay on the place at all times. It works will for longer time period out of the way stays such as when guest come over etc. I would think of the bed to be the same as a place stay. Once a dog understands a basic place stay it can be used on many different items. I new a dog that used a towel as a place stay for traveling.
I use a house or crate stay for full confinement when I need no chance they will screw up and leave it. I.E. we leave the house or have people over that are afraid of the dogs etc.
As far as training marks and standing on odd objects such as buckets etc. To me that is more trick type training and I train to the mark first then translate that to any object location etc. Teach a basic stop on the mark then increase difficulty.
Dogs can learn a lot of similar commands as long as it is focused training start easy and increase difficulty. I like to train commands that can mean many different things once learned.

Thanks so much! So you would teach them to go a mark and then the bucket or whatever is the mark but it just happens to be off the ground and they have to figure out to get on it?

 

[ShrekDawg]

And is down staying under a table or chair similar to the freedom stay idea or not really since they have to be under it the whole time? Not that I need a dog to do that cause I don't have an SD but I'm just wondering.

Sounds similar to another thing Gator knows but I don't usually enforce anymore: stay outside the kitchen while we eat. I don't care what you do out there but don't come in. He used to lay right in the doorway watching any dropped food but now that he has a bed in the hall and is older, he usually lays on his bed, still eyeing the food but comfier lol or asleep till food is tossed his way or in his bowl. Or lately, and the part I say I don't enforce much now, sometimes he lays on the floor beside the table now but doesn't beg usually

 

[PirateGirl]

I am a dog trainer and have always used place as a freedom stay. Meaning you can do whatever you want as long as you are quiet and at least two feet stay on the place at all times. It works will for longer time period out of the way stays such as when guest come over etc. I would think of the bed to be the same as a place stay. Once a dog understands a basic place stay it can be used on many different items. I new a dog that used a towel as a place stay for traveling.
I use a house or crate stay for full confinement when I need no chance they will screw up and leave it. I.E. we leave the house or have people over that are afraid of the dogs etc.
As far as training marks and standing on odd objects such as buckets etc. To me that is more trick type training and I train to the mark first then translate that to any object location etc. Teach a basic stop on the mark then increase difficulty.
Dogs can learn a lot of similar commands as long as it is focused training start easy and increase difficulty. I like to train commands that can mean many different things once learned.

Exactly your dog is learning a behavior that will eventually translate into other things. Our mark was initially a towel. The desired behavior in any environment was to lay down on the mark, all the way down, head resting on paws, and wait. The dog was learning to be calm. To ignore the environment. The towel in a sense became inconsequential, but it helped ground the dog in New exciting situations. I have a high anxiety Aussie mix. To this day, if she wants my attention, she will deliberately lay down on the floor in front of me, all the way down, head on paws, and stare at me waiting for me to praise her patience. She doesn't jump. She doesn't get up in my face. She knows she has to bottle up her endless energy and be calm, and then we can do something fun.

 

[ShrekDawg]

Exactly your dog is learning a behavior that will eventually translate into other things. Our mark was initially a towel. The desired behavior in any environment was to lay down on the mark, all the way down, head resting on paws, and wait. The dog was learning to be calm. To ignore the environment. The towel in a sense became inconsequential, but it helped ground the dog in New exciting situations. I have a high anxiety Aussie mix. To this day, if she wants my attention, she will deliberately lay down on the floor in front of me, all the way down, head on paws, and stare at me waiting for me to praise her patience. She doesn't jump. She doesn't get up in my face. She knows she has to bottle up her endless energy and be calm, and then we can do something fun.

That's aeeosme! She sounds super well trained! Curious why the head down thing? So they can't look around?

And why that versus sit and watch me like I've seen talked about a lot?

Is laying down better for promoting calmer behavior?

 

[dainerra]

That's aeeosme! She sounds super well trained! Curious why the head down thing? So they can't look around?

And why that versus sit and watch me like I've seen talked about a lot?

Is laying down better for promoting calmer behavior?

most people train the "head on the paws" or for the dog to roll slightly onto the side vs a sphinx down because it's a more relaxed position and means that the dog is not keyed up ready to jump up and go at a moments notice.

yes all you need to do to get your title is pass the minimum standard. Instead of competing against the other dogs, compete against yourself and try to improve with every entry. 3 qualifying runs is all it takes to get your title. And the title is equal rather you finished with 3 perfect scores or hit the minimum score.

For the protection training, one thing that those involved don't realize is that it's not about training the dog to bite but more about teaching the dog NOT to bite. You teach that tug is fun. That it's fun to bite the sleeve or take down the bad guy but the actual reward comes for the "out" - letting go of whatever he is bitting. The protection or working dog that can't be a family pet in his down time is less common than the dog that leaves work or the sport ring and chills out with his family playing with the kids.

 

[ShrekDawg]

most people train the "head on the paws" or for the dog to roll slightly onto the side vs a sphinx down because it's a more relaxed position and means that the dog is not keyed up ready to jump up and go at a moments notice.

yes all you need to do to get your title is pass the minimum standard. Instead of competing against the other dogs, compete against yourself and try to improve with every entry. 3 qualifying runs is all it takes to get your title. And the title is equal rather you finished with 3 perfect scores or hit the minimum score.

For the protection training, one thing that those involved don't realize is that it's not about training the dog to bite but more about teaching the dog NOT to bite. You teach that tug is fun. That it's fun to bite the sleeve or take down the bad guy but the actual reward comes for the "out" - letting go of whatever he is bitting. The protection or working dog that can't be a family pet in his down time is less common than the dog that leaves work or the sport ring and chills out with his family playing with the kids.

Thanks for all the explanations! This makes a lot of sense! So can you teach a regular down and the relaxed one? Or the sit and watch but sometimes down? I didn't realize it was only 3 runs either!! I thought it was a lot more complicated. I might have to try it sometime!

And hm that makes sense. It's all a big game, right? If they out, they get to bite again? I thought some dogs bit out of defense drive though?

 

[dainerra]

I don't do IPO (schutzhund or any type of bitework) simply because I don't have a close training venue and the time to devote to it. Some trainers work dog in defense and some don't. It really depends on the style of the trainer and the drives of the dog. But yes, the dogs LOVE to work.

Here is an older video of Singe doing some Rally obedience. This is the Rally Advanced, which is the second level.