Dog turned predator - how do I convince my husband to get rid of it?

[CrazyTalk]

No. SHE is not the dog's owner. She is married to a man who brought the dog into the family (along with other animals at other times) without asking her first.

Which makes her the owner of the dog. Marriage is a legal contract that involves the sharing of property. The dog is as much her responsibility as it is his. If the dog mauls someone, or kills someone else's livestock, shes as much at fault as he is. If she KNOWS the dog is dangerous, shes also possibly criminally liable.

There are 3 options here:

1) The dog needs to go.
2) The dog needs to be properly trained.
3) She needs to go.

One of these things need to happen. Anything else is putting her in more danger, both physical, and legal. If her husband isn't willing to take responsibility for the dog, she has to.

 

[6of6chicks]

Which makes her the owner of the dog. Marriage is a legal contract that involves the sharing of property. The dog is as much her responsibility as it is his. If the dog mauls someone, or kills someone else's livestock, shes as much at fault as he is. If she KNOWS the dog is dangerous, shes also possibly criminally liable.

There are 3 options here:

1) The dog needs to go.
2) The dog needs to be properly trained.
3) She needs to go.

One of these things need to happen. Anything else is putting her in more danger, both physical, and legal. If her husband isn't willing to take responsibility for the dog, she has to.

In THIS country (I'm assuming you're in the US, although I don't really know). The OP lives in Israel. You can't just assume the laws are the same there as here. Culturally, you can't just assume that her marriage works the way your does.

Do I feel the same way about dogs as you do? Yes. Dogs are family members and they don't distinguish between "owners." But that is MY take on dogs through MY rose-colored glasses. My ex-fiancé firmly believed that letting a dog in the house was dirty & disgusting, and in my relationship with him I would NOT have been held accountable for the dog's actions. He was the head of family, and as such the responsibility fell to him.

Honestly - I had to shift my thinking more towards cultural understanding (based on my own experiences). As soon as I did my anger evaporated and I saw the situation very differently.

 

[CrazyTalk]

Honestly - I had to shift my thinking more towards cultural understanding (based on my own experiences). As soon as I did my anger evaporated and I saw the situation very differently.

Isreal's marriage laws are very similar to the US as far as property ownership goes. It's as much her dog as his. It took less than a minute to figure this out via google.

A dog that is constantly knocking people over, doesn't listen to commands, and is showing guarding behavior is extremely dangerous. Especially to a pregnant woman (who is going to have poor balance, etc). Anything that doesn't either remove the dog from her proximity, or make the dog less dangerous is making things worse.

 

[Flock Leader]

You're missing the point. She IS the dog's owner.

What if tomorrow I buy a pet snake? Then I will tell my husband, "you are the snake's owner because you are married to me, and therefore it is your duty to share in the care for the snake and make sure it doesn't hurt anyone.

Don't feel comfortable around the snake? Warned me against getting it in the first place? Well that's your problem."

Does that make sense?

By the way, I really haven't had the chance to dig into the legal side of this, but my husband considers the dog to be HIS. He even told me explicitly, "this is MY dog and I'm the one to decide." And no... I'm not going to call a lawyer and then tell him, "no, this is OUR dog, because it's joint property." This is about a relationship, and about practical realities... not about legal issues.

This is JUST based on what I read in previous threads, but the OP is an Orthodox Jew living in Israel.

I didn't want to bring up this fact in this thread precisely because I didn't want people to judge my dilemma based upon cultural/religious assumptions. That's why I didn't say, "oh, and by the way, I live in Israel and we have a war going on here. Great for stress levels". Nor did I mention that the reason my husband thinks we need a dog for protection is because of terrorists, not burglars. We live in an outpost in the so-called West Bank. Houses here were broken into and whole families murdered in cold blood, including babies in their cradles.

Honestly, though, there are many people in Israel who treat dogs the same way as you do - as if they were part of the family. Even Orthodox people. Israel, like the US, is a multi-cultural entity. I personally was not raised Orthodox and grew up in a neighborhood where many people kept dogs in apartments. I, however, had a cat. I'm simply not a "dog person". When I first heard we must have a dog, I was like "no no no no". I thought I would never dare to approach a large dog, even to feed it. I was mistaken. I got over my fear of dogs and learned to appreciate them. This will not happen with the dog we have now, however. My best hope is to find her a good home.

 

[CrazyTalk]

You're misunderstanding me.


I don't think of dogs as necessarily part of the family. And I most certainly would not put up with a dangerous dog, and that's what you have here.

If you don't either get rid of the dog, train the dog, or leave the situation, the dog IS going to hurt you badly at some point (if the behavior you've described is accurate) It might be the dog knocking you over and you hitting your head, it might be the dog snapping at you because it decides it doesn't want you in its chain-territory. Bored, untrained, high energy dogs are very dangerous animals, especially when you're afraid of them.

The chickens aren't the issue here.

 

[6of6chicks]

Quote:
Well, the point I was trying to make is that I WAS making assumptions based on not enough information, and now that I have more information I'm more open-minded.

I was not making assumptions about YOU, your life, culture, or religion. I only brought it up because it was an epiphany for me. It reminded me of a time in my life when I learned a very hard lesson. It's one thing to say you appreciate diversity, it's another thing entirely to fall in love with someone who has fundamentally different beliefs than you do. Finding a way to reconcile different ideas about marriage, raising kids, God & religion - that was the first time I truly understood respecting (& loving) someone even when their ideas and beliefs want to make you tear your hair out in frustration. And I certainly was not saying Orthodox people treat dogs badly. I was simply saying MY fiancé's religious beliefs taught him that dogs are dirty and are to be kept outside, which clashed with MY beliefs that dogs should be kept inside. It was not a commentary on you, or anyone else for that matter, at all.

I'm sorry if I posted information that you didn't want others to know, but I found it simply by clicking on your recent threads (where you stated several times where you were from). I can understand that you didn't want to turn the thread into a political or cultural statement, and I respect that. However - I can tell you that I would have reacted differently to your thread had I had more information. Maybe others would have as well, and this thread might not have turned so hostile.

I'm also truly sorry for what you are living through. I won't insult you by pretending that I understand because I simply can't. I haven't lived through what you have. But I would like to offer you my best wishes and sincere hope that your family stays safe (including your dog) and that things work out for you in the future.

 

[Flock Leader]

I'm sorry if I posted information that you didn't want others to know, but I found it simply by clicking on your recent threads (where you stated several times where you were from).

Well, it's not like I'm keeping my religious/national identity secret. I just wanted to discuss this particular issue in a more, shall we say, culturally neutral way. Never mind, though. I stand by everything I wrote and am sticking to my original plan: try to convince my husband to find a new home for this dog.

If you don't either get rid of the dog, train the dog, or leave the situation, the dog IS going to hurt you badly at some point. Bored, untrained, high energy dogs are very dangerous animals, especially when you're afraid of them.

The chickens aren't the issue here.

I agree that this might turn into something a lot worse than the loss of chickens.

 

[Gumiho]

"Tasting Blood" is a load of crock...
Suggesting shooting the dog because his owners are irresponsible with him (BOTH of them) is bull.

A GSD x Mal mix is a very high drive working dog. They never should have gotten him to begin with. Mal Mixes are not outdoor livestock guardian dogs, they are extremely high prey drive, handler oriented multi-purpose working dogs used for scent work, protection sports, K-9 work and herding (not guarding). A Mal mix handled like an LGD is going to make itself a nuisance. They're highly intelligent, need CONSTANT mental stimulation and exercise and Mals and their mixes are commonly known to be neurotic and destructive when neglected. And this dog is neglected.

And a dog that has killed livestock CAN be trained, especially a breed mix this intelligent. Dogs are very capable of learning contextual behaviors if the owner takes the time to learn anything other than foolish myths about dogs and takes the time to train them. Hunting dogs regularly live around livestock and other animals, tasting blood doesn't make them senseless killers.


But its obvious this isn't even about solving a problem to protect the birds, this is about getting rid of the dog and this is the most convenient opportunity to see it done. Hopefully the Husband can be convinced so that the dog can go to a more suitable home, and hopefully the OP makes her feelings clear so no other dog has to go through the situation.


Check if there are any local breed rescues, Schutzhund / IPO / French ring clubs or ethical breeders. They may be able to help you find a suitable home that will know how to care for the dog, rather than passing it on to another family that won't know what to do with it.


Quote:
I'm sure the dog was feeling much the same: Neglected, Trapped, Hopeless and confused as to why he was receiving such cruelty for something natural that he didn't know not to do. Punished harshly for the failure of his owners to properly train and socialize him. Now THAT is senseless an cruel. And sure, its difficult to work with him now, but whose fault is that? It isn't just your Husband's fault.

For the love of what ever you hold sacred, once this dog is rehomed, grow a pair and DO NOT LET YOUR HUSBAND GET ANOTHER DOG! Cruelty is not fair game as a compromise in marriage.

Perhaps have your husband read this thread. It may make it clear to him that a dog is not a good fit in the family.

 

[Flock Leader]

*** UPDATE***

In a chilling coincidence, yesterday - that is, a short time after I started this thread - the dog was found dead in our yard.

We had chicken for dinner, and as usual, I made up a plate of scraps and bones for the dog. My husband went out to give her the leftovers and called to me saying he can't make the dog come out of her clump of bushes (her favorite hide-out on her territory). It struck us both as extremely odd - she usually comes running when she smells bones. Long story short, the dog was found seemingly unscathed but obviously dead. It was a shock - she had seemed fine in the afternoon.

The worst part of it was that the first thing my husband did was suspect me being actively involved. Well, I guess I have to see this from his point of view: after the last chicken incident, I yelled at him, "don't drive me to despair - if you don't get rid of this dog, I'll poison her". He doesn't re-home the dog, makes it clear to me he'll do what he wants, and shortly after, she drops dead and it sure looks like poison. I realize it was a terrible thing of me to say, but we all say things when we are angry and I would never really do that. I think the very existence of this thread proves it: why waste so much time thinking how to convince my husband to re-home the dog, when I was really intending to poison her all along? Also, as I pointed out to him, it was Saturday and we were both home all day and mostly hanging out together. When exactly would I poison the dog, and wouldn't it make more sense to choose a day when he's not home?

Then, our neighbor came to help bury the dog, and he suggested it might be a snake bite. It was like a lightbulb turning on, because not long ago we caught a large and deadly snake in our coop (I posted a picture of it on another thread), and unfortunately, while we were trying to figure out whom to call to re-locate it, it escaped. We should have ignored the "endangered species" BS and whacked the snake on its head with a rock. It's highly likely it's still here somewhere, and it's perfectly capable of killing a large dog - its bite can be deadly to humans if untreated, especially in hot weather.

So, at least my husband realized I wasn't responsible for the death, but he was still bitter towards me, saying things like "you must be happy right now". Which is NOT true. First (in my rational mood), I wanted this dog to go to another, better home, not to die. Second, I wanted this decision to be made between my husband and myself and to mark a new chapter of better co-operation in the future. Circumstances decided in "my favor" this time (rather tragically), but this doesn't prevent him from planning to get another dog. He actually began talking of it about half an hour after the burial. I was horrified, of course. I asked him please, PLEASE not to do this to me and started listing all the reasons why we don't need another dog, especially right now. He gave me this dirty look and said, "if you don't get off my back NOW, I will call someone tonight and there will be a new dog here TOMORROW." Just to illustrate what I'm dealing with. If I press too hard, he is perfectly capable of doing things he doesn't even really want to do, just to prove to me he's the boss.

Again, thanks to everyone who commented. Things weren't good between me and the dog, to say the least, but this comes as a terrible shock.

 

[jlynnp]

Maybe some of those bones you had fed him in the past perforated his intestines. Never ever feed dogs cooked bones - only raw. Table scraps are not a suitable balanced diet for a dog.