Dominant and Recessive White and Other Colors "hiding"?

[RememberTheWay]

Dominant white chick down can look anywhere from pale yellow to almost reddish. I don't know for a fact that that means anything. I would suspect that it means that chick is gold-based (as opposed to being silver-based), but I couldn't say that for sure beyond that suspicion. Unless it ends up feathering in with color leakage, whether it's gold or silver based likely won't make much of a difference to its final appearance.

I thought I had read something saying a brown dot on the back of the head indicating the Columbian gene? Is that true? If so does the gold dot mean the same thing?

 

[RememberTheWay]

Those all look like shades of blue to me, but definitely keep an eye out for any weirdness as it feathers in more! Cute chicks!

Thanks! I'm a little partial to them! I am keeping very meticulous records on everyone I hatch so I can gather some data and stuff to look back over once I'm a few yrs in to see if I can see patterns to improve my breeding program. I am not sure if anyone is working on Ermine color variants or not, like lavender ermine, chocolate ermine, or blue ermine. I've seen a few birds that were culled out of Ermine lines for being blue ermine and they actually were quite beautiful birds

At the i-locus, you have i+ wildtype, I dominant white, I^d dun, and I^s smokey. I^d is a partial dominant that dilutes the black pigment to a brown to sort of gray-brown color with one copy and further to a pale gray-brown to whitish color with two copies. I^s dilutes the black pigment to a smokey blue-gray color similar to the blue gene, but from what I've read, I^s hasn't been seen outside of flocks used for research.

So at the I locus can a bird be only one of the genes you mentioned or can they be mixed with some of them? Like could they have both dun and smoky? Or be dominant white and smoky?

 

[RememberTheWay]

I^s dilutes the black pigment to a smokey blue-gray color similar to the blue gene, but from what I've read, I^s hasn't been seen outside of flocks used for research.

I've seen people say that blue expresses differently on male and females? Is this true? If so can you explain or show examples of how?

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

I thought I had read something saying a brown dot on the back of the head indicating the Columbian gene? Is that true? If so does the gold dot mean the same thing?

Hmm, well I know that Wheaten-based Columbian-patterned breeds can have some black or gray spotting in their chick down, particularly in the head and on their back. Generally it looks like a thin stripe, though, not so much like a blotch. I don't think that the blotch on your chick has anything to do with the Columbian gene.

Thanks! I'm a little partial to them! I am keeping very meticulous records on everyone I hatch so I can gather some data and stuff to look back over once I'm a few yrs in to see if I can see patterns to improve my breeding program. I am not sure if anyone is working on Ermine color variants or not, like lavender ermine, chocolate ermine, or blue ermine. I've seen a few birds that were culled out of Ermine lines for being blue ermine and they actually were quite beautiful birds

Sounds like a fun project! I know that the base Ermine in Ameraucanas is absolutely beautiful. I imagine dilutions of it like blue and chocolate would be gorgeous as well!

So at the I locus can a bird be only one of the genes you mentioned or can they be mixed with some of them? Like could they have both dun and smoky? Or be dominant white and smoky?

Each locus can have a two alleles of that particular gene at it. So at the i-locus, you could have a combination of any two of the i alleles, i+, I, I^d, or I^s, depending on what the parents have to pass on.

So yes, a bird could be I^d/I^s for both dun and smokey, or I/I^s for dominant white and smokey. I don't know how smokey interacts with other i-locus alleles, however, so I don't know how such a bird would look.

I've seen people say that blue expresses differently on male and females? Is this true? If so can you explain or show examples of how?

Kind of, but not to the extreme that male and female Duckwing or Wheaten differ, for example. Blue males get those glossy, decorative feathers in the hackle, shoulder, and saddle area as is typical of roosters, and these tend to be a few shades darker than the ground feathers, giving them an almost darkened saddle look, kind of like the saddle mark some dog breeds get if that makes sense.

Here's a picture from Cackle Hatchery that shows that difference pretty well. The male has those darker masculine feathers on his neck, saddle, and shoulders, while the female is only darkened a bit in the neck:

 

[NatJ]

Do you happen to have a reference sheet for all the gene color/pattern/trait symbols that also has a visual representation image of what that color/pattern/trait looks like in reality? I have a hard keep all of it sorted, I'm trying to learn it, but without it written out in a way that shows symbol - written name- image, I'm having a hard time associating the symbol (when I'm reading) to what it actually means and looks like. If that makes sense? And it's not just for the genes in this specific thread, it's all of them

Would be super helpful if I could find something like what I described to refer to and learn from

I don't know of anything that is exactly what you described, with just symbol/name/image, but here are several things that might help:

https://kippenjungle.nl/chickencalculator.html
You can change any one gene and see what the picture does. Or change several genes and see the effect of all of them.

This page comes closer to being a list, with the same pictures and some explanation:
https://kippenjungle.nl/basisEN.htm

This page has a list of gene symbols and names, but no pictures:
https://kippenjungle.nl/sellers/page3.html

I know this is an old thread, but if you are still looking, or if someone else is looking for the same information in the future, these might help.