Dominique Thread!

[Zone3Dakota]

Hi - my definition or understanding of inbreeding is brother to sister and a group of chicks that come all at one time from a hatchery has the high probability that many of the chicks are brothers and sisters and that is the inbreeding I'm talking about -- not son to mother or daughter to father where a breeder is keeping a closed breeding flock to perpetuate good traits. I think a lot of wry neck or splayed legs in the Silkie thread might be coming from close brother-sister inbreedings where a lot of newbies are breeding for the joy of having more chicks for fun and not realize the hatchery chicks might have originally been brothers-sisters to each other. Does that explain my question a little better of having another source or hatching of chicks that can be bred to the first order of chicks to avoid the possibility of same-hatch siblings breeding together? Example:

20 cockerels and pullets in 1st order from a hatchery - probably not safe to inbreed these possible siblings to each other.

20 cockerels and pullets in 2nd order from the same hatchery - probably not safe to inbreed these possible siblings to each other.

However, it's probably safe to breed chicks from the 1st order of chicks to the 2nd order of chicks from the same hatchery to avoid same-hatch sibling inbreeding? The hatchery line/source remains the same but less possibility of sibling inbreeding than would occur if the birds mated each other in the same hatch. Hope I'm getting the correct understanding of inbreeding about siblings.

Actually, if one gets a batch of chicks from a small breeder (one roo) then there might be a higher incidence/percentage of relatedness than from a hatchery that has many cocks and hens. Also, eggs from the hatchery were likely collected on the same day, making each egg from a different hen. I avoided statistics in college for a reason, but i would think that full brothers to full sisters would be more apt to happen from the mating between two batches from a breeder's different hatches, especially a small breeder or hatchery.Did that make sense?

When my dad was raising dogs, we would occasionally have a littler of inbred (bro to sis). Found out right away that the long-hair gene was carried by each parent. Had the inbreeding not been done, it might have taken us years to figure that out, instead of in one litter. As it turned out, those longhair pups and their siblings were long-lived good cattle dogs.

From what i understand, chickens can be 'not outcrossed' for decades and decades with 'righteous culling' of breeding stock and keeping of several lines within the greater flock. I've seen pigeon pedigrees that go back to the same bird a dozen or more times all within seven generations or so, and they can be sought after because of that.

On the other hand, with my breed of cats, there were heart problems early in the breeds development. When tests became available, some cats that had 'clear' tested hearts were used extensively in certain areas, only to find that the heart problems could 'show up' later in life, which it did in at least one male that was used extensively up and down the east coast, before his problem finally showed up. So, even the best of plans can go bad, and sometimes after tons of money were spent in testing for 'something' within a breed or species, even.

 

[Zone3Dakota]

Alaskan, i agree that keeping records can be very useful. Only when i was experimenting with breeding tropical fish(mollies!that was fun!) have i dealt with the extreme progeny-number potential. I didn't even try with the mollies, but am amazed at some of the recording methods used by chicken people.

...and i agree about not coddling the critters. One of the cat breeders that i knew...i was amazed at how she didn't stick to one brand of litter, but got anything that was on sale...and then mixed them together. Usually, it was pretty cheapo litters that she used. She laughed when asked about that. Said that when her kittens went off to new homes, the kittens thought that they were in heaven, getting the 'best' of everything. Those kittens never had the problems 'adapting' or refusing to use a litter. She didn't abuse anything, either.

There are hard decisions to make, bio-security, etc. Individual circumstances weigh in.

 

[Sylvester017]

Actually, if one gets a batch of chicks from a small breeder (one roo) then there might be a higher incidence/percentage of relatedness than from a hatchery that has many cocks and hens. Also, eggs from the hatchery were likely collected on the same day, making each egg from a different hen. I avoided statistics in college for a reason, but i would think that full brothers to full sisters would be more apt to happen from the mating between two batches from a breeder's different hatches, especially a small breeder or hatchery.Did that make sense?

When my dad was raising dogs, we would occasionally have a littler of inbred (bro to sis). Found out right away that the long-hair gene was carried by each parent. Had the inbreeding not been done, it might have taken us years to figure that out, instead of in one litter. As it turned out, those longhair pups and their siblings were long-lived good cattle dogs.

From what i understand, chickens can be 'not outcrossed' for decades and decades with 'righteous culling' of breeding stock and keeping of several lines within the greater flock. I've seen pigeon pedigrees that go back to the same bird a dozen or more times all within seven generations or so, and they can be sought after because of that.

On the other hand, with my breed of cats, there were heart problems early in the breeds development. When tests became available, some cats that had 'clear' tested hearts were used extensively in certain areas, only to find that the heart problems could 'show up' later in life, which it did in at least one male that was used extensively up and down the east coast, before his problem finally showed up. So, even the best of plans can go bad, and sometimes after tons of money were spent in testing for 'something' within a breed or species, even.

That's an understandable explanation. TY!

 

[JediJinx]

Thanks

good temperament is good, I've been very lucky with roosters so far and have been on the fence about getting one of these for a few years now, might almost be time to just go for it. Where do you all recommend one purchase a dom Cockerel? I have 6 hens he would be well looked after.

 

[Chaos18]

Does anybody have a link to breed standard for Doms?

 

[blueclip]

I picked up these three 2.5 month old australorps today and dropped them into my coop of dominiques (rooster in flock) and they all got along. Well, I should say they mostly got along; it took a few minutes for a few of the hens to peck one of them and the rooster did not fight or peck ANY of them. There was quite a bit of clucking either from panic or confusion but other than that it seemed like a pretty non-violent integration into the flock. Can anyone explain how/why this happened? The lorps are pictured below.

 

[FarmerMac]

Last year I bought some eggs and hatched them. I kept a trio to breed and hatch some of their eggs this year. This is what the adults look like.

One of my other hens hatched them and out of the twelve that hatched, three were white. The others looked normal. Here they are at one day old.

Here they are again at two weeks, their feathers are turning barred.

Any idea why they came out white?

 

[Alaskan]

@blueclip just great personalities. My Dom rooster lets me chuck stramge roosters into his pen. He puts them in their place, but is never out for blood.

Very awesome breed.


@FarmerMac there is a recessive white gene (maybe more accurate to call it a recessive "dilute" gene, not white) that hides in some lines of Dominiques.


Anyway... You can either keep them, breed White/dilute Dominiques, or cull them. Your choice.

However, don't panic, it shows you do not have hatchery Doms, those are good stock, they just have that elusive dilute/white gene.

 

[FarmerMac]

@blueclip just great personalities. My Dom rooster lets me chuck stramge roosters into his pen. He puts them in their place, but is never out for blood.

Very awesome breed.


@FarmerMac there is a recessive white gene (maybe more accurate to call it a recessive "dilute" gene, not white) that hides in some lines of Dominiques.


Anyway... You can either keep them, breed White/dilute Dominiques, or cull them. Your choice.

However, don't panic, it shows you do not have hatchery Doms, those are good stock, they just have that elusive dilute/white gene.

Alaskan, thanks for the info. I got the eggs from a BYC member that raises them here in VA. I culled some of them and kept the best looking ones. I will keep these light colored ones to see how they look once they are older. Thanks again.

 

[Sylvester017]

Last year I bought some eggs and hatched them. I kept a trio to breed and hatch some of their eggs this year. This is what the adults look like.


One of my other hens hatched them and out of the twelve that hatched, three were white. The others looked normal. Here they are at one day old.

Here they are again at two weeks, their feathers are turning barred.


Any idea why they came out white?

@FarmerMac there is a recessive white gene (maybe more accurate to call it a recessive "dilute" gene, not white) that hides in some lines of Dominiques.


Anyway... You can either keep them, breed White/dilute Dominiques, or cull them. Your choice.

However, don't panic, it shows you do not have hatchery Doms, those are good stock, they just have that elusive dilute/white gene.

I came across an old turn-of-the-20th century photo of white Doms. They were rare and not perpetuated in breeding for some reason -- maybe too many other white chicken breeds out there at the time? like White Rocks or White Legs? It's nice to know that getting whites in a hatch are not hatchery stock.