Dominique Thread!

[NYREDS]

Quote:
SOP by itself is hollow or more susceptable to forgery. We all seem interested in the real thing. To give more rigor to how American Dominique is defined I suggest the following.


1) Parents, at least most are recognized as being American Dominique - NYRED promotes this in his line with the 50 year pedigree.
It is possible to take birds not derived from American Dominique stock and using the Standard Of Perfection as a guide to develope a line that is a dead ringer for an American Dominique. Could still be distiguished using molecular genetic techniques.

2) You must look like an American Dominique - Even if a you start with NYREDS best in the world American Dominiques, you could intentionally or otherwise create a critter that satifies consideration 1 yet looks nothing like an American Dominique. This is only area SOP is strong.

3) Do you perform like an American Dominique. This is one I see not being stressed enough and appears most difficult to uphold as WallTenters indicated in post # 753. It is still important. Using rearing conditions to select for performance can be a method that reduces change in characteristics of breed that are not always detectable by the judges hand. Examples of what a judge has a difficult time determining include: 1) how long does it take you to reach market size, 2) What quality of feed is required for you to reach market size in the time typical for an American Dominique, 3) can you brood your own offspring but still lay a good number of eggs for a long productive lifetime, and 4) can you produce without anti-biotic or de-wormer applications? And many more. Failure to respond to this will result in some mighty pretty birds that do not perform well, sometimes even when isolated from all stressors like poor nutrition, enclement weather and disease. The livestock conservation groups are strong proponents of this.

There is no reason a breeder can't do both -- breed for performance as well as the SOP. IS there?

I think I'll start calling mine NY Dominiques too!

I'd like to post pics for evaluation -- but this is a tough crowd!

Actually I do both. Last year I culled the nicest looking pullet I ever raised because at 10 months she had yet to lay an egg. Not something I'm interested in reproducing.
When you suggest to me that it's important for poultry to be productive you're preaching to the choir. A chicken that doesn't lay eggs dependably isn't much of a chicken in my book. That said, a "Dominique" that lays 250 eggs a year but bears little or no resemblance to the established standard for the Dominique isn't much of a Dominique.....in my book.

 

[tgrlily]

I'm pretty opinionated myself, but am a Dominique newbie.

Not a great pic, but here are some of my Dominiques in the grow-out pen. The black chick is an Orpington.

 

[buffalogal]

Quote:
As long as it's not blue, green, white or that overdone Marans/Welsummer version of "chocolate", I consider the shade of the egg irrelevant. Full sisters from a hatch can grow up with one laying a slightly darker egg than the other. If, for whatever reason, I prefer one bird to the other, and use her and her offspring, I'm inadvertently selecting for one shade of eggs, whether that was the idea or not. I can only speak from my own experience, but I have not found a relationship between a pale brown egg and proper type, or correct barring or the right comb. If I set only larger eggs; eventually, all hens in the yard will be laying bigger eggs, simply because by not hatching small eggs it becomes one of the things I'm actively selecting against. However, unlike egg color, I have noticed a real benefit of selecting for larger egg size; an improvement in the overall hatch rate and survivability of the chicks.

As for picking out crossbreeds, type is the first thing to loose in a crossbreeding and the hardest thing to get back. It's an oversimplification, but I just figure if it *looks* like a rose comb Barred Plymouth Rock (i.e. shape, or barring), then it's likely there's a BPR in the woodpile.

Quote:
Mark Fields wrote that he believes the origin of white Dominiques in the Voter line can be traced back 50 years to the documented introduction of *one* white game hen in Robert Henderson's flock in the 1960's. But Henderson got his original birds from Dr. Harwood, and Harwood's line had produced white sports as far back as the 1920s. Harwood had the oldest purebred Dominiques in existence, a mix of old lines from New York, Darlington and Yerks.

Linebred Hyman stock, which is considered to be the purest in the country today, have also produced white birds. When you trace those back, you find that Hyman got his birds from Gallagher, who got his from Uber, who's original birds came from "someone in New York", and that Hyman later added birds from both Voter and Uber. IOW, there has always been some outcrossing -within the breed- between the very best purebred lines. I suppose it's possible, but it just doesn't seem likely that every white Dominique that has hatched over the last 50 years have all descended from that one game hen, and it doesn't explain the existence of white sports 40 years before that.

 

[wsmith]

So let me throw out a question....

We are still getting things ready for chickens next spring. Big project.... (it blows my mind that folks will get chicks, and then wonder how to house and feed them. I have what my kids call OCPD-Obsessive Compulsive Planning Disorder)

Anyway, we have already contacted a couple of reputable breeders and will be buying hatching eggs from them next spring. These will become our breeding stock. BUT- IF we were to also buy some Doms from a hatchery to supplement for eggs and meat while starting out, not for breeding purposes, which hatchery to choose? The closest ones that I know of to me are (in order of proximity) Privett, Cackle, and M McMurray. Thoughts? I suppose it wouldn't really matter, unless of course there was an unplanned parenthood........

 

[buffalogal]

I'd recommend Cackle, in Lebanon, Missouri.

 

[wsmith]

Why if I may ask? I have no opinion yet.

 

[buffalogal]

Quote:
From what I've heard, (and it may not be accurate), McMurray contracts out for the rare breeds like Dominiques; no telling who or where they come from. I am not saying they are a bad hatchery; my first Anconas came from mcMurray over 20 years ago and i remember they were healthy and recognizable as to the breed. But the only Dominique I was told came from McMurray (a "packing peanut") was a male with coarse, pendulous wattles and a comb was so large it looked like it needed it's own zip code. But that was several years ago; hopefully someone on here has Dominiques from McMurray and could give us an update.

The Privett birds that I have seen (at a county fair) were dark, smutty and to my eye, looked like they had BPR in the not to distant past.

OTOH, compared with other hatchery birds I've seen, IMHO the LF birds from Cackle hatchery are above average for type. If you wanted bantam Dominiques, I would not hesitate to tell you to order from Cackle, as their stock is straight from Mark Fields "Unbeatable Beauty Line" of SQ Dominique bantams, and have not been mixed with anything else. Of course, it's a hatchery, so they aren't necessarily going to be top show quality. But, as walltenters likes to point out, the genetic potential is still there, awaiting only judicious selection and culling to bring it out. Cream rises.

When I asked Cackle about their LF, I was told they'd had them so many years they weren't sure where they came from. Still, I figure Mr Fields must have seen their standard sized birds, and decided they weren't too bad, or else he wouldn't have let his bantams go there. That's only a hunch, Cackle hatchery did not, to the best of my knowledge, get their standard Dominiques from Mr. Fields.

 

[wsmith]

Interesting. Thanks!

 

[WallTenters]

We got some Doms from MM. Most were more barred-rock type body style. We did not have coarse combs or wattles - in fact I was rather pleased with the heads in general on these birds.

We only kept one hen and one cock, he has now gone to a pet home. However we have a few pullets and one cockerel out of him, I can say that just in one generation if you're really selective the MM birds can be greatly improved. The ones we got again, had nice heads on them, and have put a large eye on the next generation. We hope to keep that going as well as the smaller comb and wattles.

The hen we kept is rather nice but is a little more on the fluffy side of the Dom scale, but we've bred her to a nice complimentary cockerel and we're waiting to see how that batch of chicks turns out. The first hatching we took an order of pullets to the local feed store, as well as a bunch of chicks to a poultry swap. The second hatching is in the bator now. There are a few left from the first hatching, they're a few weeks old now and doing fine.

If you need photos, I'm sure I could dig some up. Shoot me an email if you'd like.

I have heard good things about Cackle, too. I haven't seen too many LF from them.. Was thinking about just going out and ordering some to raise out and finally put my curiosity to rest

 

[Up-the-Creek]

Hi all! I just wanted to see if any of you all who have Dominiques could tell me if this chick (abt. 4 weeks old) is a Dominique? It came from Ideal hatchery. Everything looks right but the comb,....is it just because it is so young or is it a fluke? Thanks!