Don't sick and/or get accident if you don't have money

[Patience]

Thank you Dunkopf.

 

[chickened]

Sounds reasonable to me. I think a good healthcare system is and can be affordable just not ran by the government. I would pay into a good plan just not to the government they are unaccountable in this country above the law and just untrustworthy I mean look at Weiner the guy is a liar and a philanderer. The elected have no sense of right or wrong their idea of it is colored by their environment.
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[Patience]

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Chickened, you have presented a great many things that you do not agree with but I have not yet seen what you would propose. I am truly sorry if I missed your post outlining what you think is the best plan of action.

Again, I have come to the conclusion that opening Medicare to all seems like the best response to the crisis we face. The people I know who use Medicare and Medicaid are very satisfied. In fact, 70% of Medicare patients report good access to care as opposed to 51% of patients with private insurance. 63% of Medicaid users reported good access. The government run health care systems that we have consistently deliver and are the best plans on offer. The infrastructure is in place and the results are proven

But I would love to hear your specific ideas on how to solve this problem.

 

[chickened]

I would like what Congress has, they say it is fiscally responsible but I think not. The plan that government workers get is a good one and again they say it is fiscally responsible. Our fine city of Portland Oregon just voted in gender reassignment as a covered procedure for city workers only... Our mayor is openly gay but he says that is not why he pushed it through.

I do not trust our government they have a poor track record. I do not believe it is a right but a privilege just as driving a car is a privilege (car insurance was mentioned). People get sick and it costs money to get fixed then you pay for it either before as insurance which is still cheaper or afterwards with payments but I do not expect others to pay for mine nor I pay for them especially BS treatments like GR as mentioned above. Our healthcare offers a fix for whatever ails you and every year they add more coverage for expensive procedures. I really think for what all Americans want for coverage it is just not possible and that is a hard pill for an American to swallow living in a can-do country.

I listened to a guy from Zimbabwe and he was amazed at what we can do as a country.

Medicare is tailored for the most part to older citizens and from my fathers experience with it someone else was footing the bill and alot of things were cheap for him but eventually someone does pay the bill. Medicare is in financial trouble also is it not?

All I hear now days is how the wealthy are gonna get it stuck to them. What will happen when there are no more wealthy to stick it too? I for one do not want to be considered wealthy. I think everyone should pay an equal amount not based on how much you make... or do not make, at least those that are able to work and if they cannot afford it then they can volunteer time to the healthcare system in lieu of payment, no freeloaders!

Like I said I do not think it is really possible unless we change our very way of living which is part of the hopey changey movement. One would have to change our freedoms and liberties as we know them to force the wealthy to pay or the poor to work. I see no other real longterm solution but I am realist also and do not indulge in pipe dreams or utopias.

 

[Patience]

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You say you would like the Congressional health care plan. That is a government run plan so I admit to being a little confused when you then say you do not want a government run plan. Those two statements seem contradictory to me. The Federal Employees Health Benefits Program is actually being considered by many legislators as a basis for universal health care, but I have concerns about how small the infrastructure is: it only covers about 9 million people.

Medicare is not really in trouble. It will cost more than we are currently paying in at some point, but moving the healthiest portion of Americans into it and transferring the payments that private insurers currently receive from individuals and employers would go a long way to alleviate that. Medicare is still the most cost effective model we have in this country even though it caters to the most expensive patients.

So to sum up what I think your position is, just to make sure I am reading you correctly:

A) Someone who is gay did something but not because he is gay.

B) You actually are open to the idea of some kind of universal health care that would be run by the Federal Government, but you have reservations about the solvency of Medicare.

C) You don't like Anthony Weiner.

D) Someone from Zimbabwe likes America.

To sum up my position again:

Opening up Medicare to everyone is the best option we have in terms of cost efficiency and consumer satisfaction and outcomes.

 

[chickened]

Please do not patronize me if you want to continue this conversation, I think you get what I am saying.

I will clarify if you are having trouble, people in government have self interests therefore they are not true public servants, servants put the needs of the payer first for example the Congressional plan which is not really ran by the government but by the members of congress, the people are the government. The gay mayor and Wiener were just examples of self interests. The part that I "really don't think it is possible" would be a better summary of what I said. The guy from Zimbabwe was a speaker/missionary at a church I attended and knows more about being a servant than any public employee he was doing his calling without pay for years and I did not want to bring his faith into the conversation because there is always a certain person/atheist that will run it into the dirt. It was an incomplete thought so to say. The plan that Congress has I would like it is great who wouldn't? I could just vote it in for myself like they do, is that not a good plan in anybody's book? They give themselves raises also that would be nice also, I am being facetious now. Your plan is a step in the right direction but a band aid approach unless they properly fund it and the jury is still out on how the PRIVATE run hospitals will react and the people working in them, compare it to public education and the turmoil that has suffered.
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You say you would like the Congressional health care plan. That is a government run plan so I admit to being a little confused when you then say you do not want a government run plan. Those two statements seem contradictory to me. The Federal Employees Health Benefits Program is actually being considered by many legislators as a basis for universal health care, but I have concerns about how small the infrastructure is: it only covers about 9 million people.

Medicare is not really in trouble. It will cost more than we are currently paying in at some point, but moving the healthiest portion of Americans into it and transferring the payments that private insurers currently receive from individuals and employers would go a long way to alleviate that. Medicare is still the most cost effective model we have in this country even though it caters to the most expensive patients.

So to sum up what I think your position is, just to make sure I am reading you correctly:

A) Someone who is gay did something but not because he is gay.

B) You actually are open to the idea of some kind of universal health care that would be run by the Federal Government, but you have reservations about the solvency of Medicare.

C) You don't like Anthony Weiner.

D) Someone from Zimbabwe likes America.

To sum up my position again:

Opening up Medicare to everyone is the best option we have in terms of cost efficiency and consumer satisfaction and outcomes.

 

[Patience]

Quote:
You say you would like the Congressional health care plan. That is a government run plan so I admit to being a little confused when you then say you do not want a government run plan. Those two statements seem contradictory to me. The Federal Employees Health Benefits Program is actually being considered by many legislators as a basis for universal health care, but I have concerns about how small the infrastructure is: it only covers about 9 million people.

Medicare is not really in trouble. It will cost more than we are currently paying in at some point, but moving the healthiest portion of Americans into it and transferring the payments that private insurers currently receive from individuals and employers would go a long way to alleviate that. Medicare is still the most cost effective model we have in this country even though it caters to the most expensive patients.

So to sum up what I think your position is, just to make sure I am reading you correctly:

A) Someone who is gay did something but not because he is gay.

B) You actually are open to the idea of some kind of universal health care that would be run by the Federal Government, but you have reservations about the solvency of Medicare.

C) You don't like Anthony Weiner.

D) Someone from Zimbabwe likes America.

To sum up my position again:

Opening up Medicare to everyone is the best option we have in terms of cost efficiency and consumer satisfaction and outcomes.


I am sorry if I sounded patronizing. I lashed out with sarcasm because I am frustrated by how often I hear NO GOVERNMENT etc. when the government seems to deliver the best social services for the least amount of money. I am also frustrated that you have not offered up an alternative or responded to any of my points other than with unrelated anecdotes.

So I will try again with a tone that is more worthy of both of us:

I think you would not actually be opposed to opening up Medicare to all if you just looked at the facts. I have put some of those facts on the table in this conversation and await your thoughts on them or an alternative.

Thank you chickened and I apologize for my lack of respect.

 

[chickened]

Ok I will go through what you said line by line item by item.
Our costs are higher because we pay our providers more, we do not have the worst outcomes medical enrollment is down because other fields are lacking it is a normal cycle.

I am not sure medical bankruptcy is the leading cause of bankruptcy I would research that one.

"Our system is broken..." what does that statement really mean? Healthier more efficient? isn't that relative?

Income tax is the largest private tax paid and is relevant, I prefer a flat tax.

Corporations pay 1/2 of SS in payroll taxes and several other taxes and you cannot tax corporations they need capital to grow.

The socialist list, nobody is forced to use the things you listed although they are convenient.

We have the best care but you are right not the best system.

A tiny bit of abuse? never mind my sister is a nurse she can talk for hours about abuse.Medical care is never denied in this country to the ones that need it they just ask that you pay for it which is reasonable.

And finally, you have not offended me no one rarely does, My suggestion is to prioritise your wants buy the care you feel you need and quit making others pay for your wants. That is my plan for "fixing" the system. What you want me to answer is not possible because I would be playing the devils' advocate and I am not going there. Your question is reasonable if I felt the government was responsible for my healthcare pre-retirement. Medicare is pre-paid for future needs not pay as you go for immediate need. Won't work in it's current form.

Something else I should add and no I do not have any "data" to back it up and that is the wealthy will not nor ever will pay for healthcare for the people it has been that way down through history always it will come on the shoulders of the working class always has always will, that was the big lie from Obama that the wealthy will pay, I remember a woman said if he was elected her financial worries were over, Oprah called him "the one", don't ask me how they manage not to but it has always been that way they have a way of getting what they want done and if they do pay anything it is what they want to pay.
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[chickened]

Who do you think buys Canada's subsidized products? What type of Government do they have modeled after ? not ours.

My reference to WWII was facetious but meaning when Americans set out to do something if anyone can get it done we can and we are resented for it sometimes. You may not be old enough to remember the animosity over us bailing out Europe.

There are people that choose to be poor in the light of opportunity they are called lazy.

What you most likely seen in Florida and the Midwest was our Welfare population where poor quality/irresponsible parent have kids and yes they are innocent. Extreme wealth compared to low income may seem poor in comparison but nothing like Central America. People do not go hungry here but by choice.

I will ask my banker why she left but my guess was economic opportunity's which is/was a choice.
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[Patience]

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Our costs are higher because we pay our providers more, we do not have the worst outcomes medical enrollment is down because other fields are lacking it is a normal cycle. You are incorrect: "Americans spend twice as much as residents of other developed countries on healthcare, but get lower quality, less efficiency and have the least equitable system." Link YourLinkGoesHereIt has nothing to do with how much we pay providers. Providers account for about 10% of the cost of health care in the US. LinkMedical school is the only graduate programming that has had a drop in enrollment. It has nothing to do with the economy.

I am not sure medical bankruptcy is the leading cause of bankruptcy I would research that one.Allow me to save you some time: "Sixty-two percent of all bankruptcies filed in 2007 were linked to medical expenses...Of those who filed for bankruptcy in 2007, nearly 80 percent had health insurance." Link

"Our system is broken..." what does that statement really mean? Healthier more efficient? isn't that relative?It means our system is broken.

Income tax is the largest private tax paid and is relevant, I prefer a flat tax.This is a separate topic and has nothing to do with your claim that 50% of American [workers] pay no taxes which is false.

Corporations pay 1/2 of SS in payroll taxes and several other taxes and you cannot tax corporations they need capital to grow. Corporations were growing just fine when they contributed 6% of GDP. They are still growing. In fact, corporate profits are the highest they have been in 40 years and their contribution is the lowest. Link and link

The socialist list, nobody is forced to use the things you listed although they are convenient.And yet I bet you feel completely entitled to the subsidies you receive such as 2/3 off the real price of gas. Or are you willing to pay $12/gallon since you don't believe in socialism?

We have the best care but you are right not the best system.See my first link.

A tiny bit of abuse? never mind my sister is a nurse she can talk for hours about abuse.Medical care is never denied in this country to the ones that need it they just ask that you pay for it which is reasonable.While I respect your sister's profession, I do not believe in policy by anecdote. The real loss to fraud in Medicare is about 10% and I do not believe in denying 9 people access to care because one person is unethical. Link Again, see my links about bankruptcy.

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my points. I still believe that my position is based on a rational analysis of the facts. Again, if you think you have a better proposal, I would love to hear it.

*Edited to correct a misquote I made of something chickened said.*