Don't sick and/or get accident if you don't have money

[chickened]

On the job training?

Quote:
He did have a radical preacher that preached some hateful things about some factions of our society. Maybe if you lived in the shoes of the people that he preached to you might have a better understanding. Where you get sissy from I sure don't know. He's got bigger golf balls than any POTUS since Reagan. He is getting a good education. Just like every POTUS that has ever served. By the time he steps down in 2016 he'll be very educated and completely grey. POTUS is a tough job. Might be why every single one comes out looking about 15 years older, except Reagan. He looked like a fossil when he started. No he is not a super hero. A lot of people don't understand that the POTUS can only try to influence the Congress and veto anything he doesn't like unless it has enough votes to be veto proof.

 

[chickened]

Kind of a short post for you eh? why bring race into this?
Quote:

 

[chickened]

The Washington post? really unbiased. Maybe Medicare would be the answer but you still ignored the fact that the government in this country is not responsible for healthcare and until that hurdle is cleared everything else is mute despite the best analysis. My plan is much simpler just pay for it. If we all made more money that would solve the problem also and I did zero research for that answer. Either way it is not an answerable question as I would be the advocate for something I do not support. You feel the government owes you and that is Ok I feel otherwise.
Quote:

Our costs are higher because we pay our providers more, we do not have the worst outcomes medical enrollment is down because other fields are lacking it is a normal cycle. You are incorrect: "Americans spend twice as much as residents of other developed countries on healthcare, but get lower quality, less efficiency and have the least equitable system." Link YourLinkGoesHereIt has nothing to do with how much we pay providers. Providers account for about 10% of the cost of health care in the US. LinkMedical school is the only graduate programming that has had a drop in enrollment. It has nothing to do with the economy.

I am not sure medical bankruptcy is the leading cause of bankruptcy I would research that one.Allow me to save you some time: "Sixty-two percent of all bankruptcies filed in 2007 were linked to medical expenses...Of those who filed for bankruptcy in 2007, nearly 80 percent had health insurance." Link

"Our system is broken..." what does that statement really mean? Healthier more efficient? isn't that relative?It means our system is broken.

Income tax is the largest private tax paid and is relevant, I prefer a flat tax.This is a separate topic and has nothing to do with your claim that 50% of American [workers] pay no taxes which is false.

Corporations pay 1/2 of SS in payroll taxes and several other taxes and you cannot tax corporations they need capital to grow. Corporations were growing just fine when they contributed 6% of GDP. They are still growing. In fact, corporate profits are the highest they have been in 40 years and their contribution is the lowest. Link and link

The socialist list, nobody is forced to use the things you listed although they are convenient.And yet I bet you feel completely entitled to the subsidies you receive such as 2/3 off the real price of gas. Or are you willing to pay $12/gallon since you don't believe in socialism?

We have the best care but you are right not the best system.See my first link.

A tiny bit of abuse? never mind my sister is a nurse she can talk for hours about abuse.Medical care is never denied in this country to the ones that need it they just ask that you pay for it which is reasonable.While I respect your sister's profession, I do not believe in policy by anecdote. The real loss to fraud in Medicare is about 10% and I do not believe in denying 9 people access to care because one person is unethical. Link Again, see my links about bankruptcy.

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my points. I still believe that my position is based on a rational analysis of the facts. Again, if you think you have a better proposal, I would love to hear it.

*Edited to correct a misquote I made of something chickened said.*

 

[Patience]

Quote:
Our costs are higher because we pay our providers more, we do not have the worst outcomes medical enrollment is down because other fields are lacking it is a normal cycle. You are incorrect: "Americans spend twice as much as residents of other developed countries on healthcare, but get lower quality, less efficiency and have the least equitable system." Link YourLinkGoesHereIt has nothing to do with how much we pay providers. Providers account for about 10% of the cost of health care in the US. LinkMedical school is the only graduate programming that has had a drop in enrollment. It has nothing to do with the economy.

I am not sure medical bankruptcy is the leading cause of bankruptcy I would research that one.Allow me to save you some time: "Sixty-two percent of all bankruptcies filed in 2007 were linked to medical expenses...Of those who filed for bankruptcy in 2007, nearly 80 percent had health insurance." Link

"Our system is broken..." what does that statement really mean? Healthier more efficient? isn't that relative?It means our system is broken.

Income tax is the largest private tax paid and is relevant, I prefer a flat tax.This is a separate topic and has nothing to do with your claim that 50% of American [workers] pay no taxes which is false.

Corporations pay 1/2 of SS in payroll taxes and several other taxes and you cannot tax corporations they need capital to grow. Corporations were growing just fine when they contributed 6% of GDP. They are still growing. In fact, corporate profits are the highest they have been in 40 years and their contribution is the lowest. Link and link

The socialist list, nobody is forced to use the things you listed although they are convenient.And yet I bet you feel completely entitled to the subsidies you receive such as 2/3 off the real price of gas. Or are you willing to pay $12/gallon since you don't believe in socialism?

We have the best care but you are right not the best system.See my first link.

A tiny bit of abuse? never mind my sister is a nurse she can talk for hours about abuse.Medical care is never denied in this country to the ones that need it they just ask that you pay for it which is reasonable.While I respect your sister's profession, I do not believe in policy by anecdote. The real loss to fraud in Medicare is about 10% and I do not believe in denying 9 people access to care because one person is unethical. Link Again, see my links about bankruptcy.

Thank you for taking the time to respond to my points. I still believe that my position is based on a rational analysis of the facts. Again, if you think you have a better proposal, I would love to hear it.

*Edited to correct a misquote I made of something chickened said.*


The Post article was about a study done by the American Journal of Medicine. Hardly a questionable source. If you have other data, I encourage you to link to it.

"the government in this country is not responsible for healthcare" Actually it is, it just does not provide universal health at this time. I don't understand why you think that if something does not exist it should not exist. Our government addresses the needs of its citizens as those needs change and as or values as a society evolve. It's how I would define progress.

 

[chickened]

It did say in the article that bankruptcy was more difficult since then, and that it was "linked" to healthcare and I am sure that if I filed I would include any outstanding medical bills also. I bet poor housing market investments were the real culprits.

 

[the4heathernsmom]

I just wanted to share something. I am in deep east texas...hubby is a welder and sole provider to our family of six. Economy hit his industry hard and we are a "lower income" family aka "poor". ok so our kids are on a state funded insurance plan we pay a small fee for coverages on them thank God for that having a child with pulmonary issues that requires maintenance medication and hearing aides.
There is not an insurance available for a contractor or self employed worker that we could begin to afford and what is offered through his employer would cost us what he makes per week to cover the family....so we are not covered. We have a 3 bedroom doublewide trailer with a mortgage and a few acres of land....not near paid for.
I am white....38 years old....not that should matter but I slipped and fell last year and broke my leg and ankle in four places while feeding the chickens in the snow. I went to the hospital er, they patched me up, set my leg, and wrapped me up then sent me home with pain meds saying go see the orthopedic surgeon. The orthopedic surgeons didn;t want to talk to me much less see me knowing I had a 10,000.00 surgery ahead with no insurance coverage and no money. After many calls, much begging and pleading, I finally got an appt (had to be paid 150.00 up front) to be told what I knew I needed major surgery to be repaired or walk again. I filled out paperwork after paperwork and had it not been for private benefactors at our rural hospital here willing to help lower income uninsured families like mine i would be "not fixed" . I still have a balance with the surgeon who had to have 1500.00 up front before he would schedule my surgery for a 7 inch plate in the leg and 13 screws in my ankle. I was a dollar sign, not a patient and I truely feel I received less than acceptable care pre and post surgery because of my "poor" label and lack of money.
I don't know the solution but I know being "poor" isn't what I dreamed or wanted for myself or my kiddos. We are all hardworkers and supplement our family income by using our property for gardening and selling at farmers market each week, food for the family, our chickens do their share

, we aren't poor because we want to be.
I am thankful I can walk but I don't ever want to be in that situation again......I never thought people were that way until I was crying on the phone trying to get help and couldn't find it.

It is my firm belief that you should never judge someone else until you have been in their shoes.....and you never know when it could happen to you or that label of "white collar" or "well to do" might be stripped away from you.

I just thought I would share for my 2 cents..........

 

[Patience]

Quote:
the4heathernsmom, I am incredibly saddened by your story. I am so glad you have a strong family and were able to get access to the care you needed although it wasn't timely or the best as you deserved. I wish you well and will keep you and yours in my thoughts.

 

[newfoundland]

Well said patience, you put over the points very eloquently. I fear your arguments may fall on deaf ears, as 'there are none so deaf as those that will not hear.' Having travelled in US, I have met some of the nicest and most decent hardworking folk. They deserve so much more than this. My heart goes out to you the 4heathernsmom. I have a daughter of your age and I would honestly be devastated if she were in your position. Wouldn't it be wonderful if the burden of healthcare for your whole family were lifted off your shoulders? I pray the day will come. Meanwhile, stay strong and know others are thinking of you and wishing you well. Bless you

 

[Patience]

Quote:
Thank you very much, newfoundland. I have appreciated your perspective on this thread.

 

[Dunkopf]

Welcome to the forum Patience. I need some of what your screen name is. You handle yourself very well. You must work with or have worked with a lot of children. You're very patient.

To Chicken. It doesn't matter if I am fat, gay, old, diff color, atheist, female, poor or anything else. Lazy would matter. The fact is I'm a 52 year old white man. I weight 172 lbs and I am 6' tall. No I am not lazy. I have been working since I was 13 and spent 4 years in the Army in my early 20's. I do bother to get the facts on what we are talking about vs listening to Rush Limbaugh on the radio.

I've absolutely no idea who you are. I just know from your postings that you are ill informed and are very narrow minded. Not being disrespectful mind you. Just stating facts developed by all your past postings. It might be that you don't really feel the way you claim too. If that's the case then good for you. Sometimes people post things just to show how narrow minded and unreasonable the other side is.

The reality is out there. Patience has presented it quite well. Patience has shot some of the prevailing arguments of those trying to help the wealthy through propaganda to shreds. Unfortunately our media is such that many reasonable people do not ever hear the other side. They get only one side presented in a very believable manner. I have read too many postings on this forum in the last 2 years from people that are obviously not left wing radicals. They talk about health issues that have torn them up and going from a life where they are already working very hard to survive much less prosper, to a life where they or a member of their family is dying of a treatable illness. Emergency rooms fix you to the point you can walk out the door without dying on their property.

To the4heathernsmom. Sorry to hear about your accident and the anguish you were forced to endure because of it. Thank goodness for the Chips program that was the very first thing passed in 2009. At least our children can be healthy. Naturally that program was voted against by the same people that are trying to keep everyone from having health care.

I found it amusing that one of the newly elected Congressmen in 2010 spent all his campaigning riling against Obama Care or anything resembling a plan that didn't put more money in the pockets of those that didn't need it. Yet as soon as he was sworn in his first concern was getting immediate coverage on his govt health care plan. He had an undisclosed prior condition that he didn't want to spend money on.