Don't sick and/or get accident if you don't have money

[newfoundland]

Dunkopf is right. I live in England and I would never swap our healthcare system for one which relies on private insurance. This would automatically exclude many millions of hardworking families in this country, from the excellent healthcare we enjoy. Of course it has to be paid for, in the national taxes, in an element called National Insurance, which pays for healthcare and a basic retirement pension which is about £110 a week currently (this is inflation linked). Where we differ from you is that unless we are self employed, we pay our taxes directly from our salaries in a 'Pay as You Earn' scheme. This includes our national Insurance contribution.

We also have the choice to pay for private medicine, if we choose, just as we can pay in for private pensions, and many companies have private health care and a pension scheme for their employees. If you never the income to do this you can be sure that the healthcare needs of your family will always be catered for.

A brief example of the National Health Service:
All hospital treatment - free
All citizens are registered with a community doctor - free
All visits to doctors - free
All medicine for children, students and retired people - free
All medicines for working people are charged at the rate of about 10 dollars per item regardless of cost

For my family, in the last two years, this has meant:
Two mammograms - free
Two early breast cancer operations - free
15 radiotherapy sessions - free
5 years of tamoxifen - free
Two MRI scans - free
6 x-rays - free
Change of pacemaker battery - free
And the best news of all - the birth and aftercare of one baby! - free (I must add that is within the whole family).

I am retired now, but I was a worker for most of my adult life, except for a couple of years bringing up small children. I have never earned a great wage, as I have worked in the community but my contributions have not been great as they are earnings related. My husband, who has earned a good wage, has contributed much more than me, but it has never been a burden to us, even in the years of bringing up our family, when I couldn't work. This is the beauty of the system, you pay according to your means, and receive the treatment according to your needs.

Could their be a fairer system ?

 

[bakerjw]

It has its issues, that is for sure. But having the government run it is not the answer. Show me one government program that is run efficiently and effectively. I doubt if it can be done. Sure we can tax the %#$@% out of the rich as that seems to be the standard socialist line and put all control in the hands of Washington but in the end that will create a bigger mess than we have now.

Both sides have good ideas but neither is willing to work together for what is right. It is all about control and staying in power.

 

[Dunkopf]

A lot of Americans tend to be very short sighted. They don't look at is as a rising tide floats all ships. Instead they look at it as a rising tide allows others to rise too. A lot of people here feel that we are all individuals and if the person next to you isn't able to get health care because they don't earn enough then they must be lazy. There are others that can't afford health care and don't really care because they don't need it anyway. At least right now.

It's a sad situation. The Americans fierce streak of Independence. It is good and bad at the same time. It's what has made our country great for many with the most powerful military in the world. It has given many opportunities to many people. It's also what has made so many within our country very poor. It's the reason the country is collapsing from within.

As pointed out by the OP. What use is a society full of people that are sick and not treated. How can a person contribute if they are too weak to work?

To the OP. In this country, insurance carriers are very powerful and wealthy. There are also government regulations that require the other carriers to step up and cover a companies claims if the company goes insolvent. It has happened before and the other carriers pay the claims dependent upon the size of each company. All companies are required to keep a reserve on hand. Every company gets a rating based on how well their reserve is maintained. The insurance companies are one of the few businesses that are still heavily regulated in this country. The only thing not regulated is how much profit they can make through minimizing claims exposure.

 

[welsummerchicks]

The American spirit of independence never anticipated how medical costs have skyrocketed, nor how much insurance companies hold all the cards.

Keep in mind - insurance companies have a vested (HIGHLY vested) interest in:

1. Keeping medical costs high - REALLY high

2. Keeping people of lesser means without insurance

3. Paying out to as few sick people as possible

4. Convincing Americans that government-aided health care is a mistake - even if it means lying, twisting facts

ESPECIALLY number 4. Especially. We're being propogandized as well as incredibly successfully manipulated.

And most of us don't even realize it.

And all the insurance companies have to do is fall back on that 'na you don't want the gummint gittin' its fangers intah yur health care, 'cause you a free Ah-MURICAN'.

Think about it, the insurance companies and the hospitals they work with have an awful lot of money to lose if health care costs are being scrutinized by a third party.

 

[chickened]

If throwing government money at a problem was the answer we would have fixed it by now this debate is not new. Think of it as a swimming pool pouring water from the the deep end (THe rich) into the shallow end (the poor) and you may see a momentary increase at the shallow end but it levels itself all the same.

Throwing money via taxes is not going to fix the healthcare in America. One thing that was left out of the comparison of our countries healthcare compared to socialized countries healthcare is we have over 50% of the working class that pay no taxes. Then you couple that with the welfare generations and you now have a significant amount of non-payers in a system that requires a payment and the folks that do pay for the most part resent that and feel that they should not have to wait as they pay their FAIR share. If our government is willing to put the country back to work I think a lot more folks could afford healthcare. Our country is ran on capitalism as is our hospitals. Our economy sucks and so therefore so does our healthcare system. Socialized care will never work in this country unless we give up our way of life and change our core values. I for one enjoy our liberties and am not willing to relinquish them for "free" medicine, nothing in life is free. No utopia here.

Wellsummer, the profit in running a hospital is not what you think you would be amazed at what legal costs are, in socialized medicine you cannot sue if things go wrong and that is a fact, try suing the government. If you were under the pressure of the folks running a hospital you would not work for the same wage as the next guy with no responsibility. Someone did say just look to the track record of how the government runs things that alone is enough for me and apparently most Americans D or R. And besides what ever the system we get the rich will not suffer anyhow that is just reality.

And putting down folks with your poor grammar/spelling = ignorance is neither nice or cool.

 

[mulia24]

According to "newfoundland" post, it seems that people who live in England (hmm, off course become the citizen too) is getting real good healthcare protection...

I wonder when will our country put on such regulation/system.

I hate to get thing working with Mr. Politic.

All I (and perhaps many) want is that all citizen get the same right to access health facility, get low cost medical treatment, get low cost medicine and off course with good quality.

There's one fact I want to tell you folk about medical treatment in my country... although it's embarrassment, I need to be honest ( although I'm not "Honest Abe" , I admire A.L. too

)

Medical treatment here is realllllllllllllllllllly baddddd (sorry for long emphasis) especially for the middle to low wealth people.

I've met more than dozens people that telling me their bad experience when dealing with doctor and/or nurse and hospital here. and I myself even get this bad experience.

I'll simplify it into list.

1. Expensive hospital cost

2. Unfriendly and rude medical staff (doctor/nurse)

3. Don't like if you're asking, they want you to get in, being checked and give you prescription. They hate if you asked about what you're suffering, what kind of disease, why it happens, how to prevent it,etc.

4. They always in hurry! it seems they have target to "finish" 1 people every 5 minutes.

and one of the worst...!!
5. They gave false diagnostic!!!, this happen many times, that's why people here didn't believe local doctor, they believe more with doctor abroad and prefer to visit doctor abroad to our neighbor country.

good health and good education are two most important basic things we need to build a great nation but how pity those two are things we lacked of.

I'd like to share 2 new pictures..

this IS NOT outbound or training... I repeat, this is not outbound or military training, this is picture of several students that have to cross a wide river in order to go to their school because the flyover bridge already broken and fall into river several months ago. they hang over the bridge metal construction to cross the river. imagine the danger they got.

and this is not public bath or people bathing in river (I've blur some parts of picture).. this is picture of primary school students crossing river to go to school... they need to take off their cloths to avoid their cloth being wet. they take off when crossing and put it on back after reach the other side of river, this happen because this people don't have bridge and there's only one small manual boat that can only load 4 peoples on it.

well, finally, I've admit we lack of 2 important things to build good (if not great) nation, good education and good healthcare...

 

[Dunkopf]

Quote:
Don't think it's most Americans. The guy in the WH ran on a platform of single payer health care. He was elected by 53% of the people that voted. It would seem at the time that most people were in favor of fixing the health care system. By the time 2012 rolls around there will probably be less unemployment but more under employment. The income disparity gap will be even bigger than it is now and I'm quite sure that Obama will probably get closer to 60% if the GOP even bothers to run someone. Your swimming pool analogy is good. Think of a swimming pool that is 100 feet long. The first 50' is 1" deep, the next 49" is about 2" deep, the last foot is around 10,000' deep. That's a goof way of visualizing the way things really are.

Single payer is the only way this country will survive. Why is there profit in health care? That's the real question. People should be making a fair wage depending on what they do. It shouldn't be something people get rich doing. If you are wealthy than go pay your doctors cash. There will be plenty of that when single payer finally comes to the USA.

 

[mulia24]

Quote:
I'd like to know what's the meaning of single payer?

GOP?

does it mean whoever can bring good health care would be elected by more people in general election?

 

[Dunkopf]

Quote:
I'd like to know what's the meaning of single payer?

GOP?

does it mean whoever can bring good health care would be elected by more people in general election?

The US has a 2 party political system. There is a 3rd party called the Independent party and even a 4th party called the Libertarian party. However the 3rd and 4th parties never get more than 3 or 4% of the vote between the 2 of them. When people vote for them it is a symbolic vote. The GOP is the Republican party and they aren't doing too well right now. Mostly because they are trying to mess with 2 of the most important functions of our government. Medicare and Social Security. People are figuring it out and they aren't happy. So our current President will probably get re-elected unless a qualified Republican pops out of the woodwork or something really major happens. Stranger things have happened. Maybe Obama will get swift boated or Osama Bin Laden will rise from the dead.

Single payer just means that instead of having over 400 different insurance companies and different brokers, all with different types of coverage, there would be one plan that would include everyone. Doctors would be paid based on experience and specialty. Drugs would be negotiated with the pharmaceutical companies for the best price. Everyone would pay through payroll deduction with the amount depending upon how much they make. Poor people would pay very little and wealthy people would pay significantly more. Right now we have middle men known as insurance companies that take a large chunk of money and control our medical system. With single payer ( The payer would be the people of the USA represented by the government) they would be eliminated and only the actual cost of the medical care would be involved. Medicaid and Medicare which are both administered by the US government have a 6% administrative cost. Anyone that doesn't qualify for one of those programs either goes without coverage or pays an insurance carrier. If you don't have any claims the coverage runs around 500 to 800 a month for a single person and around 800-1800 a month for a family. If you can't afford that then you go without and cross your fingers. the insurance companies have around a 25% administrative fee, also known as profit which is paid to company executives and stockholders. So it's really pretty simple.

As our economy continues to remain stagnant, more and more people are being forced to take jobs at much lower wages with little or no benefits. Therefore they will not have medical coverage of any kind. Add to that the stress of living on half of what they used to make and living in much worse conditions and you have a perfect atmosphere for worsening health. People will be eating worse than they are now if that's possible. Heart problems and diabetes will be rampant. Many of the people that currently don't need health care and don't support government health care because they would have to pay for it, will find themselves in need of health care. Somehow when that happens people start to see the light. It won't be too many more years before more people will find themselves in need. When that happens you will see people deciding that single payer might not be such a bad idea. JMO of course.

Make of it what you will. There are many other opinions out there and I would bet you might hear a couple of them. At this point whoever gets the unemployment under control would win. Since there are no Republicans that are in a position to do that it's unlikely that they will be the ones to get unemployment down.

 

[chickened]

Mulia I will simplify it for you, The" haves" do not want our government taking thier tax dollars and redistibuting them to the "have nots", healthcare is viewed by some in this country as a right when the current system is on a pay as you want or it is purchased like life insurance. We have overburdened our social programs and if any thing was said in the last election the majority of voters voted in a new party that said they will get our government spending under control.

I have yet to figure why people with socialized medicine still come to America for good treatment. (not really it is obvious.