EDUCATIONAL INCUBATION & HATCHING CHAT THREAD, w/ Sally Sunshine Shipped Eggs

[FaerieChicken]

Which way are you leaning?

It was certainly a first for me.

It definitely wasn't Kosher.

A friend told me about a huge slaughter and after they threw all the roosters into a pile to be processed when they were done. After a while, one got up and ran away. He was kept to be a breeder for his will to live.

Well was there a cut there, maybe you were sleep walking on this guy before you left and thought you had done the deed, gathering from the memory of the process thought there was blood draining. I don't know, could happen right!

Oh you mentioned about Lactic Acid settling in his system before processing, what happens if the lactic acid remains, does it give the meat a different flavor?

 

[Chaos18]

Cool. That's a start, if you want to raise Icelandics.

They are Swedish Flower Hens. I'm hoping for at least one girl

 

[Akrnaf2]

Cool. That's a start, if you want to raise Icelandics.

They are Swedish Flower Hens. I'm hoping for at least one girl

Sandwich flour hen?

 

[Chaos18]

Sandwich flour hen?

No, Sandwich flour cockerel

 

[FaerieChicken]

Just got home - haven't read back yet. Today (the last day!) Goodwin and two of his girls got out, and the sitter couldn't find them this evening at bedtime. I got the text while in the cab on the way back from the airport. I sent her home (telling her it wasn't her fault) and resumed the search in the dark. I found a trail of Goodwin's feathers in the waaaaaay back of the yard - enough to show he was clearly chased and attacked by something. One large pile of under-feathers in a nook under some brush (like he was cornered there). But not QUITE enough to make me sure he's gone, and no blood or body (though his body could have been dragged into a den or something - that's a very overgrown part of the yard, and it was dark). Dumbledore lost many more feathers and lived. No feathers that I could see for either pullet (blue copper marans and cream legbar). No evidence that anything could have gotten in with them in their coop/ paddock, so I suspect they flew out, and were attacked then (they've done it multiple times - I suppose there's a twisted Darwin award thing going on here, except I bet he was protecting the stupid girls). It's unsettling thinking of them out there hiding (with Goodwin injured if alive). Yes, I eat my birds on occasion (usually the boys). But I also consider myself their protector and caregiver, so I can't help but be worried about them. He's just a relatively young cockerel, no spurs, not that large.

This is him when he was still only 16 weeks old, pretty boy:




Hating this....

So, to take my mind off of it, I'm going to candle early (tomorrow is day 10). As it so happens, on a lark, I threw in 6 marans eggs in there as well - all from Goodwin's coop (the eggs have been fertile). Hoping I'll get some babies from them (hard to see into the shells, but I'll try). Then, I'm going to read back and hope that you guys have been really funny in the last 300+ posts...

- Ant Farm

I know I am a bit late posting, but I hope you have found them, haven't scrolled that far yet!

If not, I am sad that something else may have gotten that free meal, that must have been pretty delish.
I like you, eat my birds too, however I also treat them as pets first even on the D-day, they are blessed, thanked and loved everyday of their life for providing for my family!

 

[ChickenCanoe]

I am still undecided, but the breeder that is working with me suggests getting light on them in the latter half of January. They normally need around nine months. Waddledvand bombs show they are getting closer.

Dontcha hate auto correct?

I'd start slowly incrementing light. Perhaps start 15-20 minutes added in the morning every two or three days. That should do the trick.

Only $13.50 per week; actually. I feed everyone layer... All flock is way too expensive.

How do you prevent non-layers from consuming excessive calcium?

I did, too, 'til someone on here said about layer being bad for roosters over time; shortening their life, if I recall. I've never fed Purina anything, to any of my animals, except maybe once or twice. When I was a Nutrena dealer, I naturally fed Nutrena. Other than that, it's been all Southern States. I feed their answer to Purina's All Flock, but I'd have to dig up a receipt to tell you how much it runs.

I see where another pullet has finally decided to join the egg-laying party today. 'Bout time; they're 7/2 hatches. They free-range almost daily though, so some of them may be laying God-knows-where. They have access to way more ground than I'm going to scour looking for eggs. I've kept them in the run & coop several times, though, and just now's the 1st time I've seen two of their eggs.

Understandable about the affinity to Nutrena. I am buying mostly Nutrena now that our feed co-op isn't active.
I spent 32 years at Ford and though I've had several European cars, I've had dozens of Ford cars and trucks - all the way from Escorts and Focus to F-700s.
I went on an Easter hunt yesterday. I may need to do more exploring before the freezing weather returns. I have lots of pullets that look like they should be laying with only one nest in their building and only one egg so far.
I'll broach the subject of excess calcium for non-layers below.

I've read that, but I've always fed layer feed to everything old enough to be in with the grown ups with no consequences. My opinion was if extra calcium was really so deadly, why is Emma still going strong at nearly age 8, when she hasn't laid in years? Why ain't I noticed more health problems?

Great! I think Enya mighta joined the layers; not entirely sure. The 4 other EEs are just coming back into lay so I can't recognise everyone's eggs by sight yet.

Jazzy should start laying soon, she's a 6/15 hatch....

You sound just like all the old timers that say they feed layer to all their birds and never had a problem.
Hopefully, your young birds aren't eating layer. It is hard enough on roosters and molting hens but chicks definitely can't have that much calcium. Layer is around 4% calcium. Birds to 6 weeks need about 0.8 percent calcium. 6-14 weeks - 0.7%. 14-20 weeks - 0.6%.
It is true that some strains have a resistance to excessive calcium but the research shows that most do not.
With your love of your animals and having learned about the danger of excessive calcium, I'm surprised you don't give nutrition more concern in lieu of saving a dollar a bag on feed.
http://extension.missouri.edu/p/G8352
When most people have a chicken die, they don't get a necropsy and never know that it was kidney damage.
Think about all the things chickens need nutritionally, whether that be amino acids, fats, carbohydrates, vitamins and minerals.
With chickens needing a diet requiring carbohydrates, fatty acids, 13 essential amino acids, 13 vitamins, 12 minerals Doesn't it make sense that a single mineral shouldn't make up 4% of all that intake for a bird not needing it to build egg shells?
If that doesn't make sense, how about the research that shows kidney damage in birds not needing the excessive calcium to build shells?
Chickens have 2 kidneys, each with 3 segments. As long as there are 2 functioning segments, the birds appear normal and continue to lay eggs. When one of the last 2 segments becomes dysfunctional, the bird will die within 24 hours with no other symptoms.
http://nhjy.hzau.edu.cn/kech/synkx/dong/2bao/UrolithiasisChina.pdf

http://www.neobio.biz/database/n-5data5-2/n-5data5-2-7.pdf
http://www.hyline.com/aspx/redbook/redbook.aspx?s=5&p=36
http://www.worldpoultry.net/Breeder...-damage-is-emerging-in-laying-hens-WP008719W/

On poultry farms that don't feed roosters and hens separately, roosters die at 4 times the rate of hens.
http://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/2337/urolithiasis-in-male-broiler-breeders/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10780656
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12530920
http://www.reproduction-online.org/content/early/2011/06/13/REP-11-0131.full.pdf

 

[BullChick]

@campingshaws Great to hear from you! Nice eggs. My goats went through a 12x12 poop door for chicken feed and they are full sized Saanens.
@lovechicks1293. How was granny's?

@DwayneNLizIf you wanted to use the cattle panels you could do the sides with pallets and then a board on the inside about a foot down to rest and anchor them on the spread the pressure and make it higher.

@MotorcycleChick Duckling is able to do a lot because you are investing in her. Adult interaction doing things with kids and challenging them verses electronic mind numbing makes a world of difference at her age and to her future. Blessings to you.

Thank you.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

How do I know how much per day... I mean what is the equation, should I take the current percent loss and divide by 7?

Bolded are the ones that fall below the 4.5%, but someone else said average per day % loss to be like .65%

Date Egg ID D1 D7 - % Lost
21-Dec
? 1 Turkey 67.5 65 -3.7%
? 2 Turkey 66 63 -4.5%
3 Barred 67.5 64 -5.2%
4 Barred 63.5 59.5 -6.3%
? 5 Os 13 66 63 -4.5%
6 Os 13 64.5 61.5 -4.7%
7 Hutch 52 49.5 -4.8%
8 Hutch DB 56 53 -5.4%
9 Hutch 55.5 52 -6.3%
10 Hutch DB 56.5 53.5 -5.3%
11 Hutch DB 56 53.5 -4.5%
12 Hutch 54.5 52 -4.6%
13 Hutch DB 65 61.5 -5.4%
14 Hutch 56 52.5 -6.3%
15 Hutch DB 50 47.5 -5.0%
16 Main 62.5 59.5 -4.8%
17 Main G 46 44 -4.3%
18 Main G 44.5 42 -5.6%

These aren't set in stone numbers. As long as they're close, you're good. Weight loss in an older flock should be about 13% during incubation. For a young flock, about 11%.
I'm guessing that the difference is in the higher quality of albumen in younger birds.
Anywhere between 11 and 14% is acceptable.
For personal purposes with my eggs (since I don't weigh the same day at each setting) I use the 0.65% per day number.

https://www.pasreform.com/academy/f...s/incubation/1183-humidity-in-incubation.html

https://poultrykeeper.com/incubating-and-hatching-eggs/weight-loss-method-forl-incubation/

http://animalsciencey.ucdavis.edu/avian/qualconproc.pdf

There may be an easier formula but I haven't laid one out yet in Excel. I multiply the number of days by 0.65%. Multiply that by the original egg weight, then subtract the result from the original egg weight.

Well was there a cut there, maybe you were sleep walking on this guy before you left and thought you had done the deed, gathering from the memory of the process thought there was blood draining. I don't know, could happen right!

Oh you mentioned about Lactic Acid settling in his system before processing, what happens if the lactic acid remains, does it give the meat a different flavor?

Absolutely a cut. After the slice, I used my flashlight to see the blood pouring out. I've been doing this long enough that I know how much blood flow there needs to be for unconsciousness.

They are Swedish Flower Hens. I'm hoping for at least one girl

My bad. Sweden is a bit of a distance from Iceland.

Sandwich flour hen?

Tastes just like a chicken sandwich.

 

[Fire Ant Farm]

Quote: Thanks for the kind words - still nothing after searching again for a while this AM. I agree with you that it's somehow harder without the feathers, like I'm waiting for the pullets to come home. But nada. If they're hiding, they're buttoned up tight and not coming out (and if so, it's only a matter of time until a critter gets them). They are protected in the paddocks, but out of them, all bets are off - my yard is fenced against dogs, but cats, foxes, etc., can get through the fence. I can't turn all 1.6 acres into a fortress...

Your eggs are already pretty dark, crossing back to a dark egg rooster only darkens them to more olive. But I think only half the offspring will have the copy of the blue gene in your scenario, so roughly half pullets will be dark OE, and half dark brown layers, I'm thinking. (I lurk on the OE thread a lot... The six marans I have in the 'bator will be OE if they make it.)

Thanks for that advice - I have moved them to the hatcherand they are at about 55% humidity - will turn by hand (tilting in carton). Hatcher is an R-Com 20 that I don't trust for incubation/turning, has a nice smooth surface so I will mark the top after they roll before putting the nubby stuff down for the peeps to learn to walk on.

Howdy peeps.... I sorry I'm not on much anymore winter really hasn't roared much yet so I've been busy.
Weird lights and outlets in my 4 wheeler barn so far.... So I have somewhere to work on my 4 wheeler and snowmobile.

And yes I've been ice fishing we have a good foot of ice so ice fishing is in full swing..... HAPPY NEW YEAR everyone.... Please be safe tonight if you go out (and even if you don't)

Phil!!! Great to hear form you, and congrats on the fishing results! I miss fishing...

GOOD MORNING! THIS WILL BE THE FINAL DAY OF COFFEE CLUB! NEXT YEAR WILL BE A YEAR OF CHANGE! SO DRINK UP! and don't believe me.

Thanks - I really needed that!

Happy new year everyone! I probably won't be on much today or tomorrow soI'm wishing it to you now

The show girls are all fluffed up now

Eeeeeeee!!!!! I love looking at showgirls!!! I don't have them because I'd probably true them into house pets, which is NOT my general approach to chickens...

Actually, scratch that- I just checked again, and WE HAVE A PIP!!!!

Those roughly shipped eggs of mine with the horrific saddled air cells that were HUGE and too big? I got 8, and they all hatched REALLY late, like 2-3 days. I was convinced they were dead, and they popped out fine. So have hope...

I'm keeping my butt planted firmly at home tonight..... Hopefully the crazies will be off the roads by tomorrow.

Me, too. I'm going to work on building the new brooders, so I'm heading out in a minute to get some supplies, and then I'm staying here.

@Fire Ant Farm I hope you find the girls, and your cockerel though his chance with the feathers seems less.

.

Thanks. Who knows, maybe they'll wander back. But when they've gotten out before (with the occasional night spent out) they are always raring to get back into their coop, and nada so far. Might have found some Marans feathers obscured by leaves. No CL feathers - I would bet on her being alive if any are, they are tough and wiley by instinct and hide really well. But she needs to come back home.

Quote:
Well, Monkey was going to either be sold (he's pure Splash Copper Maran from a breeder, so worth something, I would think), or soup. But he was always a possible back up as rooster for the layer coop. So unless Goodwin magically shows up alive and well, looks like Monkey is up to bat - I don't like having groups of hens without a rooster looking after them, personally. Hope he's nice to those seven remaining girls...

Quote:
I just did this. You can do by hand or enter it into a spreadsheet as a formula.

0.65 x (number of days) = expected % weight loss so far.

Then to calculate actual weight loss (let N = the day you're on):

[1 - (Weight on Day N divided by Weight on Day 0)] * 100

Then you compare actual to expected.

Quote:
Thanks. I'm not hopeful, and it's making for a sad day for me. Having a hard time getting motivated to do anything (and I have a LOT to do).

But it's not going to get done otherwise, so I guess I'd better get to it. (sigh)

- Ant Farm

 

[BantyChooks]

Dontcha hate auto correct?

I'd start slowly incrementing light. Perhaps start 15-20 minutes added in the morning every two or three days. That should do the trick.

How do you prevent non-layers from consuming excessive calcium?

Understandable about the affinity to Nutrena. I am buying mostly Nutrena now that our feed co-op isn't active.
I spent 32 years at Ford and though I've had several European cars, I've had dozens of Ford cars and trucks - all the way from Escorts and Focus to F-700s.
I went on an Easter hunt yesterday. I may need to do more exploring before the freezing weather returns. I have lots of pullets that look like they should be laying with only one nest in their building and only one egg so far.
I'll broach the subject of excess calcium for non-layers below.



You sound just like all the old timers that say they feed layer to all their birds and never had a problem.
Hopefully, your young birds aren't eating layer. It is hard enough on roosters and molting hens but chicks definitely can't have that much calcium. Layer is around 4% calcium. Birds to 6 weeks need about 0.8 percent calcium. 6-14 weeks - 0.7%. 14-20 weeks - 0.6%.
It is true that some strains have a resistance to excessive calcium but the research shows that most do not.
With your love of your animals and having learned about the danger of excessive calcium, I'm surprised you don't give nutrition more concern in lieu of saving a dollar a bag on feed.
http://extension.missouri.edu/p/G8352
When most people have a chicken die, they don't get a necropsy and never know that it was kidney damage.
Think about all the things chickens need nutritionally, whether that be amino acids, fats, carbohydrates, vitamins and minerals.
With chickens needing a diet requiring carbohydrates, fatty acids, 13 essential amino acids, 13 vitamins, 12 minerals  Doesn't it make sense that a single mineral shouldn't make up 4% of all that intake for a bird not needing it to build egg shells?
If that doesn't make sense, how about the research that shows kidney damage in birds not needing the excessive calcium to build shells?
Chickens have 2 kidneys, each with 3 segments. As long as there are 2 functioning segments, the birds appear normal and continue to lay eggs. When one of the last 2 segments becomes dysfunctional, the bird will die within 24 hours with no other symptoms.
http://nhjy.hzau.edu.cn/kech/synkx/dong/2bao/UrolithiasisChina.pdf

http://www.neobio.biz/database/n-5data5-2/n-5data5-2-7.pdf
http://www.hyline.com/aspx/redbook/redbook.aspx?s=5&p=36
http://www.worldpoultry.net/Breeder...-damage-is-emerging-in-laying-hens-WP008719W/

On poultry farms that don't feed roosters and hens separately, roosters die at 4 times the rate of hens.
http://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/2337/urolithiasis-in-male-broiler-breeders/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10780656
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12530920
http://www.reproduction-online.org/content/early/2011/06/13/REP-11-0131.full.pdf

Thanks for the links.

I could post an explanation on how I feed and why, if it would help.