EE + EE = ? OO + OO = ?

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by tkodad, Sep 11, 2013.

  1. tkodad

    tkodad Out Of The Brooder

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    Ok here's my question I have hen and roo
    Pairs 2 Easter eggers 2 olive eggers
    Will the chicks continue with egg color
    And the big question I also have mating
    Pairs of French black copper Marans and
    Cuckoo Marans I was told If I mate black copper
    Roo to cuckoo hen I will get a mix of black
    Blue and cuckoo chicks and told by another
    I will have sex linked chicks any truth to all
    This ?
     
  2. shmccarthy

    shmccarthy Chillin' With My Peeps

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    To answer your first question, if you breed an EE to another EE you will get an EE. The baby may be a different color because EEs generally carry a lot of colors, but my EE roo and hen produced little miniature versions of themselves. :) they are not old enough to lay yet, but the eg color I predict will be the same. You need to know what egg color genetics the roo carries, but if he has a pea comb, there is a very high chance he has green-possibly blue egg genes.
    I have not had OEs but I predict the same. Especially if you know what the parents of the rooster were. That usually gives you a better insight on the genetics of the babies and what their egg color may be. (I am still new to chicken genetics and am learning also)
    I do not know the answer to your other question, but maybe someone else will. :)
     
  3. WalkingOnSunshine

    WalkingOnSunshine Overrun With Chickens

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    shmccarthy isn't quite correct on the EExEE genetics. For one thing, there is no "green egg gene."

    There are only two basic egg colors, blue and white. Added to that, there are genes that apply color to the outside of the egg as it's being laid. A green egg is a blue egg with a brown coating. A brown egg is a white egg with a brown coating.

    With EEs, because they are mutts, you only have a basic idea of what genes they have. If your EE hen lays a green egg, then you know she carries a brown coating gene and a blue egg gene. This isn't exactly the way it works, but it's easiest to think of them as a brown egg gene and a blue egg gene for the genetic question. In genetics, you capitalize the dominant genes and use lowercase for the recessive. Blue is always dominant. We will also assume that your rooster is heterozygous for the blue egg gene, since so many EEs are.

    Instead of thinking of it as an EE x EE cross, think of it in terms of the genes you're looking at. B would be Blue, br for brown. So you have a Bbr x Bbr cross. Look up Punnett Squares if you want to see how I'm doing this, but basically what egg color genes your chicks might carry is described as a probability. From this Bbr x Bbr cross, for the clutch, you will probably have 50% green egg layers (Bbr, just like the parents), 25% blue egg layers (BB) and 25% brown egg layers (brbr). Since the pea comb follows the blue egg gene with something like 95% probability, one of the ways to have an idea which babies carry the blue egg gene and will lay blue or green eggs is to watch for the pea combs.

    As far as looks, that's a whole other kettle of fish in terms of feather color that I'm not even going to get into here--it's far more complex than egg color, especially for mixed breed birds.

    No, there is no truth to any of what you've been told. The barring gene is dominant, so you will get all cuckoo chicks with some red/gold leakage. They would be called barred black coppers, I suppose. Also, since so many cuckoo Marans have terrible egg color, you may not get the nice dark egg color in your second generation and the babies will not be showable because of the non-standard color. The babies will not be sex linked, either--you need a red factor rooster over your barred chicks to make sex-linked babies, and the black coppers don't have it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2013
  4. tkodad

    tkodad Out Of The Brooder

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    Thanks for the input genetics isn't my
    Forte lol but I got some really cool chickens
    And basket colors just wanna keep the ones
    I have going forever and as far as crossing
    Marans ill just keep them apart!
    BYC people rock!
     
  5. Sonoran Silkies

    Sonoran Silkies Flock Mistress

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    No, there is no truth to any of what you've been told. The barring gene is dominant, so you will get all cuckoo chicks with some red/gold leakage. They would be called barred black coppers, I suppose. Also, since so many cuckoo Marans have terrible egg color, you may not get the nice dark egg color in your second generation and the babies will not be showable because of the non-standard color. The babies will not be sex linked, either--you need a red factor rooster over your barred chicks to make sex-linked babies, and the black coppers don't have it.

    Not correct. Barring is also sex-linked, and with the pairing described (black copper over cuckoo mother), the sons will all receive a copy of the barring gene and be cuckoo, but from the black copper they will probably have a background pattern similar to black copper, and some of the copper coming through. None of the daughters will inherit cuckoo.

    To get blue in the mix, one or both parents must carry blue; for example a blue copper over a cucksoo, or a black copper over a blue cuckoo. Blue is an incompletely dominant gene; a blue to not-blue breeding will gaive half the offspring with blue and half without.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2013
  6. WalkingOnSunshine

    WalkingOnSunshine Overrun With Chickens

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    I am sorry, but I think you may have misunderstood how sex-linking works. Sex linked doesn't mean that only males carry the gene, it means that males can only carry one copy of the gene while females can carry either one or two copies, and sons can't inherit the gene from their fathers. Sons can't receive ANY copies of a barring gene from a father as it's carried on a chromosome only female chicks can get from the father. I don't know what the chromosomes are called in chickens, but it's analogous to the human XY chromosomes. The X is a whole chromosome with a full compliment of genes. The Y is a somewhat stunted chromosome that carries fewer genes. The barring gene would be carried on the chicken equivalent of the X chromosome, which males cannot inherit from the father (or they would be females).

    Barring is a dominant trait, so it will express no matter what other genes are in the mix.

    The female will have at least one copy of the gene, perhaps two--or she wouldn't be cuckoo. Assuming that she's homozygous for the gene (and she should be, she's a cuckoo Marans, and if she was hetero for the gene the parent stock would be throwing barred and non-barred chicks, which doesn't make much sense) then each and every chick, male or female, will receive a barring gene from her. The chicks will also, male or female, receive genes for the black copper coloring from the male. So we have 100% of chicks receiving a barring gene from the mother and the black copper genes from the father. 100% of the chicks will be barred with red/gold leakage.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2013
  7. donrae

    donrae Hopelessly Addicted Premium Member

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    Sorry, WoS, but you're backwards on your sexes here.

    Pure barred male birds, barred rocks, etc have two copies of the barring gene. Thus the overall lighter color. They pass one copy on to each offspring, regardless of gender.
    Pure barred female birds have one copy of the barring gene. Thus the darker color. They pass a copy on to only male offspring.
    That's how you can get black sex links from a solid (non-barred) rooster over a barred hen. She passes the barring only to her male offspring, this gives the chick a white headspot that's visible at birth.

    Now, when you take one of those black sex link males, that only have one copy of the barring gene, and put him over various hatchery hens, things can get interesting!

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  8. Sonoran Silkies

    Sonoran Silkies Flock Mistress

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  9. WalkingOnSunshine

    WalkingOnSunshine Overrun With Chickens

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    Thanks, you two. I learned something today, and I appreciate it! You're right, I was thinking mammals and didn't realize the way the chromosomes split out in chickens.
     
  10. tkodad

    tkodad Out Of The Brooder

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    Holy chicken poop so let me get this straight
    Ee+ ee = lmnop barred + blue = ~%€€£his:)!
    I'm way to Italian yo vinnie I think we got
    A chick here! Lol thanks y'all doing my best
    To understand this genetics thing whoooa
    Pretty intense I think I'll stick with true breeding
    For my Marans out of 40 chickens my bcm
    Roo is my favorite so friendly gives all his found
    Bugs to his ladies he always has to be the first
    One out of the coop in the morning and at this
    Point the girls know it thanks everyone for your
    Help ill study this post for a while till the light
    Bulb comes on! Lol by the way he's my avitar
    Just sayin
     

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