EE or Ameraucana?

[RaineyTN]

If you like how they look get them, that’s all that matters. I have both, they both eat feed and lay eggs in the end.

 

[EmmaRainboe]

I kinda want to get some, but don't if people are just going to insist on telling me I got expensive EEs and just over all argue with me

What other people think of them shouldn't matter. You won't be able to show them, so really as long as you like them that's all that matters. If you think the money is worth it then go for it.

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

Chickens are not pedigreed. All we have to vouch for the purity of a bird is a description in the standard. That is why, technically speaking, any bird that does not meet the standard within so many points cannot be considered the breed. Even if you know for a fact that both parents were the same breed, any breed, and just different varieties, if the offspring do not match the standard then they are not technically that breed. That's what I'd been taught, anyway.

I think it just ends up being a big deal with Ameraucanas, specifically, because of the ongoing battle with hatcheries to properly label their Easter-eggers, and how many people already have Easter-eggers that they claim are Ameraucanas without being able to be reasoned with. It's understandable from the viewpoint of an Ameraucana breeder that after as much work and sacrifice and passion as you've put into the breed, you'd be defensive of anything, even mixed colored but otherwise pure birds, being called by the breed name. From their point of view, it would only further add confusion to anyone witnessing these non-standard birds being proclaimed as Ameraucanas. For me, even if I was buying them knowing they were pure Ameraucanas, I'd still call them Easter-eggers, myself, just out of respect to those breeders working hard to preserve a breed that 90% of the chicken-keeping population doesn't realize is more than the bearded, green egg laying jumble of genes they got from the feed store. That's just my two cents there, though.

 

[Offshoreorca]

It really depends what you want them for? Yes, technically a mixed colour individual despite its heritage would be considered an EE because it doesn't meet the standard, but if you are looking primarily for the egg colour and personality of an Ameraucana, then this doesn't matter. However, if you are considering breeding them in the future and wish to sell them as Ameraucanas, then you should look for chicks that are bred with the purpose of being up to standard.

I do dislike the way in which some folks seem to look down on EEs - I have both Ameraucanas and EEs, and love them for different reasons. But I also can see the frustration of breeders who have worked so hard on their lines only to have hatcheries and others claim there non-standard birds are the same thing.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Most breeders will tell you they are EEs, because they aren't one of the nine accepted varieties; but I'm of the opinion of if a bird has two parents of the same breed, I see no reason the offspring wouldn't be either. Just a mixed colored. But if you're wanting Ameraucanas, I don't really see why you would want mixed colored ones?

When you cross a Light brahma x a buff brahma, you still have a brahma, just a mixed colored one.

What other people think of them shouldn't matter. You won't be able to show them, so really as long as you like them that's all that matters. If you think the money is worth it then go for it.

Because They only have the mixed pen and I don't want to order from yet another hatchery if I decide to get them. Plus I like having a bit of variation so I can tell individuals apart.

And I'm not planning to show them, it just drives me nuts when people look at my birds and tell me without reading any information I have on them posted that they're EEs. Based on my personal definition (a muffed bird of unknown heritage that often lay a green or blue egg), absoulutely none of my homebrew mixes are EEs because they are not an unknown heritage. I know exactly what breed mom and dad are, so they're mixes with muffs, yes, but not EEs. But I'm tired of people jumping in my posts to "correct" me that my bird is an EE (or a black sexlink, that happened a lot with one of them too) when it's not even close to one.

 

[ColtHandorf]

So even if someone was breeding purebred Ameraucana, but letting the birds all mix in one pen, they shouldn't call them anything but EEs or mutts?

I've never seen other breeds called mutts because it was two color varieties of the same breed mixed. They're just mixed colors of a pure breed

What is the point of calling them something they aren't? The APA SOP clearly states the accepted varieties of Ameraucana. If you cross two varieties that are not compatible...let's say Buff and Blue for example, you're going to end up with birds that tick all the boxes except for the fact that their color is not approved and that if you bred them back to one another the next generation would be just as inconsistent as the first, despite the fact that they have muffs, a beard, slate legs, and lay (or carry the gene in the case of males) for blue eggs.

Think about it from the breeders' perspective. I wish @pips&peeps was still an active member of the forum. She could eloquently explain this. But a lot of work goes into breeding birds that meet a Standard. Look at @The Moonshiner for example. He hatches vast numbers of Leghorn chicks each year and culls hard to keep the best for the following breeding season. Imagine how frustrating it would be for someone to pick up his culls at the auction and decide to breed them and start calling them something like Buff Mottled Leghorns and selling them cheaply. He after several years has locked in the Mille Fleur nonsense, () and starts selling them. He finds the vast majority of people don't care to educate themselves enough about a breed or a variety to see the difference between his birds that breed true and the cheaper birds that are shaped like a Leghorn, lay white eggs, and come in a variety of patterns so they don't want to pay him what his birds are worth. That is what Ameraucana breeders have had to face every day since the Ameraucanas were accepted into the APA.

RIWs are the White version of RIR. Just breeding two of the same breeds of different colors, so not a mixed breed, just mixed colors.

Nope, not the same breeds. This is why if you look at their SOP they are not the same with just two different colors (varieties) of Rhode Island.

Actually RIW and RIR are a separate breed not just color.

Check this

View attachment 2888176

Yes, thank you, this is correct.

Because They only have the mixed pen and I don't want to order from yet another hatchery if I decide to get them. Plus I like having a bit of variation so I can tell individuals apart.

And I'm not planning to show them, it just drives me nuts when people look at my birds and tell me without reading any information I have on them posted that they're EEs. Based on my personal definition (a muffed bird of unknown heritage that often lay a green or blue egg), absoulutely none of my homebrew mixes are EEs because they are not an unknown heritage. I know exactly what breed mom and dad are, so they're mixes with muffs, yes, but not EEs. But I'm tired of people jumping in my posts to "correct" me that my bird is an EE (or a black sexlink, that happened a lot with one of them too) when it's not even close to one.

There are several questions this brings up:

1. Are you planning on breeding the birds and selling them as Ameraucana? No, then who cares.
2. Are you buying the birds for yourself to enjoy like 99% of people that own chickens do? Yes, then who cares.
3. Are you buying the birds for us to ID them and the internet to make the decision that they are garbage birds. Glorified mutts with no value except that they lay colored eggs and that you could have achieved that by purchasing pure Ameraucana and breeding them and joining the elitist Ameraucana breeders who sit atop their own Mount Olympus lording over all the other colored egg-laying breeeds? No, then who cares.

If you want the birds for you and you're just going to keep them to have pretty eggs and make more fun babies that you enjoy, then do that. Don't get them, breed them, and sell them to the public calling them something they're not.

Now, that being said, I have sold chicks as non-Standard Orpingtons. Otherwise known as Eye Candy, Lawn Candy, or Yard Art. These birds were the result of breeding a Silver-laced Orpington rooster over Blue Orpington hens. Very few of the chicks produced were the F1 Blue Silver-laced I was going for, two in fact, out of 30 something chicks produced were Blue. All the other birds were garbage. I hate processing birds so I took them to various sales and priced them at a couple of dollars apiece, explained to each buyer they would just make fat chickens that laid eggs or chonky boys to be eaten and that was that. As I continue to work on the BBS Silver-laced I will continue to produce birds that do not meet my expectations or are an incorrect color/lack the genes necessary to use them in furthering the project. They will also be sold as non-Standard Orpingtons or live out their lives in my kitchen flock producing eggs to pay for their feed.

All of that has been said to say this. Araucanas, Ameraucanas, and Easter Eggers all have their place in this world. It doesn't really matter who came first or who is more important. What matters is that the two recognized breeds (by the APA) are distinct enough and breed true which Easter Eggers do not. That does not mean that Easter Eggers aren't fun, delightful, beautiful birds in their own way. It just means they aren't an Ameraucana.

And remember...

 

[MysteryChicken]

What is the point of calling them something they aren't? The APA SOP clearly states the accepted varieties of Ameraucana. If you cross two varieties that are not compatible...let's say Buff and Blue for example, you're going to end up with birds that tick all the boxes except for the fact that their color is not approved and that if you bred them back to one another the next generation would be just as inconsistent as the first, despite the fact that they have muffs, a beard, slate legs, and lay (or carry the gene in the case of males) for blue eggs.

Think about it from the breeders' perspective. I wish @pips&peeps was still an active member of the forum. She could eloquently explain this. But a lot of work goes into breeding birds that meet a Standard. Look at @The Moonshiner for example. He hatches vast numbers of Leghorn chicks each year and culls hard to keep the best for the following breeding season. Imagine how frustrating it would be for someone to pick up his culls at the auction and decide to breed them and start calling them something like Buff Mottled Leghorns and selling them cheaply. He after several years has locked in the Mille Fleur nonsense, () and starts selling them. He finds the vast majority of people don't care to educate themselves enough about a breed or a variety to see the difference between his birds that breed true and the cheaper birds that are shaped like a Leghorn, lay white eggs, and come in a variety of patterns so they don't want to pay him what his birds are worth. That is what Ameraucana breeders have had to face every day since the Ameraucanas were accepted into the APA.

Nope, not the same breeds. This is why if you look at their SOP they are not the same with just two different colors (varieties) of Rhode Island.

Yes, thank you, this is correct.

There are several questions this brings up:

1. Are you planning on breeding the birds and selling them as Ameraucana? No, then who cares.
2. Are you buying the birds for yourself to enjoy like 99% of people that own chickens do? Yes, then who cares.
3. Are you buying the birds for us to ID them and the internet to make the decision that they are garbage birds. Glorified mutts with no value except that they lay colored eggs and that you could have achieved that by purchasing pure Ameraucana and breeding them and joining the elitist Ameraucana breeders who sit atop their own Mount Olympus lording over all the other colored egg-laying breeeds? No, then who cares.

If you want the birds for you and you're just going to keep them to have pretty eggs and make more fun babies that you enjoy, then do that. Don't get them, breed them, and sell them to the public calling them something they're not.

Now, that being said, I have sold chicks as non-Standard Orpingtons. Otherwise known as Eye Candy, Lawn Candy, or Yard Art. These birds were the result of breeding a Silver-laced Orpington rooster over Blue Orpington hens. Very few of the chicks produced were the F1 Blue Silver-laced I was going for, two in fact, out of 30 something chicks produced were Blue. All the other birds were garbage. I hate processing birds so I took them to various sales and priced them at a couple of dollars apiece, explained to each buyer they would just make fat chickens that laid eggs or chonky boys to be eaten and that was that. As I continue to work on the BBS Silver-laced I will continue to produce birds that do not meet my expectations or are an incorrect color/lack the genes necessary to use them in furthering the project. They will also be sold as non-Standard Orpingtons or live out their lives in my kitchen flock producing eggs to pay for their feed.

All of that has been said to say this. Araucanas, Ameraucanas, and Easter Eggers all have their place in this world. It doesn't really matter who came first or who is more important. What matters is that the two recognized breeds (by the APA) are distinct enough and breed true which Easter Eggers do not. That does not mean that Easter Eggers aren't fun, delightful, beautiful birds in their own way. It just means they aren't an Ameraucana.

And remember...

I was already corrected by @nicalandia, about the RIWs.

 

[ColtHandorf]

Also here is a lengthy discussion on the topic.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/differences-ee-ameraucana-araucana-pls-post-pics.128806/

 

[ColtHandorf]

I was already corrected by @nicalandia, about the RIWs.

Indeed. I'd already quoted the message and didn't feel like removing it. It bore repeating for anyone who didn't see it the first time and also operates under assumptions.

 

[nicalandia]

And remember...

And here I thought I was alone in this world... Except I don't use Memes