egg bound? something else? ideas please

[hale moa]

of course, it is always your favorite hen!!

emma is having a problem. just noticed 2 days ago, listless, keeping to herself. last nite i went to put them to bed and she didnt come, so after i found her i put her in the bathroom. my first thought was retained egg. about a week ago i found a perfect egg laying in nest box, all intact but no shell. this was underneath a broody hen with several eggs so i didnt think anything of it then.... dont know if it was emma as i have a dozen hens. emma is about 11/2 years old barred rock. healthy, bright red comb, no breathing, straining, limping or any other symptons. then i noticed her poop and it was pretty bright yellow, watery. anyway her bottom is quite hot but no redness, swelling etc. the vent looks normal. i gave her a nice soak bath last eve and she ate some hardboiled egg. this morning she gave me a somewhat hardened poop but still alot of yellow fluid. so i read everything on this site. her crop is now empty, i squished around and smelled her breath, luckily she loves me! no bad smells. so i tried the vent flush with room temp water. first time i got alot of yellow and white egg colored stuff liquid, no shell. then i lubed up her and my finger and carefully went in to first knuckle and sorta felt around i didnt feel anything abnormal, no shells, no egg, dont feel any egg palpating her abdomen either. i waited a half hour did alot of massage then another flush until the water returned clear. i tried cooking her oatmeal, eggs etc. but she wont eat, although she has been drinking water with honey in it. i am miles from anywhere and didnt have tums but crushed up my own calcium pills but she wouldnt eat anything. does this sound like egg bound? should i continue with warm baths, flushing? how often?. she is very good natured and doesnt seem in any distress although not eating. is this something else? they free range, have 16 percent layer only thing available here and oyster shells. i feed them alot of their own eggs back hardboiled shell and all, and lots of tomatoes and papaya. only new things, i did give them ALOT of fruit last week and added a roo about 1 month ago who is young and just started to enjoy the girls in the last couple of weeks... anyway HELP is appreciated, any and all thoughts....

 

[chickenzoo]

Try to put some scrambled egg in her mouth and get her to eat. She needs to keep her strength up. It could be egg bound or something else. There is a poo chart somewhere around her that shows the different problems and what the poo from the infected chicken looks like. Hope someone has more ideas.....



I started a thread asking where the POO Chart is and to make it a sticky. Someone posted the link. It is helpful info.

 

[threehorses]

I don't think she's egg bound - but shell-less eggs are a problem on their own.

You're feeding the right diet - laying mash 90% of the diet - not a lot of grains, oyster shell free choice, with egg shells as backup. I would freshen the oyster shells. Can you get the 'flour' from your oyster shell bag? Use that in her feed?

Would she actually attempt to eat her normal laying feed - maybe if you made it into 'crumbles' in the blender? Or moistened it?

Good on the calcium tablet - not much of course - just 1/4th is what I'd use. But remember, calcium isn't just about calcium - it's also about phosphorus and vitamin D. What does your calcium tablet have in it? I'm thinking it probably has stuff in it to faciliate the calcium absorbtion...

The egg colored yellow and white are egg. Because she's listless, I would consider giving her penicillin shots as she seems to have an infection - possibly from retained yolk/albumen. It may be that she's slipping some of the eggs into her abdomen, internal laying. The flush you did likely saved her life! Kudos to you on that. I'll post something at the bottom of this about using penicillin, but of course ask me any questions you have.

Since she's drinking water, I would continue with the honey. Is there any chance you can get Nutri-drench from a TSC store? For poultry? AT the very least, I'd use vitamins/minerals in her water - and honey since that's keeping her drinking.

I'd also still try to keep her eating yogurt some how for her digestive tract bacteria - just a little at least. Continue to try to tempt her with foods. SOme people will get mealyworms and dip them in yogurt.

When you say you gave a lot of fruit last week, how much?

 

[hale moa]

thank you for your help! i will go in tomorrow and look for nutri-drench. what is it? something they drink? i just tried to give her scambled eggs and olive oil and she really fought me. at least she is still somewhat peppy. i will also get yogurt.
she did another egg yellow poop. should i flush her again? until it is clear? , she feels rather hot now. No cottage cheese poop , just the watery yellow and orange. the shell-less egg i saw was whole, not broken yolk, just laying there in the nest not broken at all, so this would be another egg, if it was emma who did that one. if they are laying for over a year will they suddenly develop this problem?
do you do a rectal temp like a cat? what is normal for a hen? can i buy penicillian? i saw powder tetracycline but not penicillian at the feed store but maybe someone said in a refri. can you walk me through an injection and where you give it?

i get papaya from the processing plant here, get 5 gallon buckets of it and just lay it out and they go nuts and between them and the sheep they eat it up in 2 or 3 days. is this bad?? thank you again, linnette

 

[threehorses]

Quote:
Nutri-Drench for poultry is a combination of vitamins. minerals, vitamin B to increase appetite, and electrolytes. It's sort of an emergency -brew for poultry. Because it's nutritionally dense, it can really help with a bird who isn't eating much (and increase appetite). B12 is also good for that.

Another option is parrot rearing formula (Kaytee or Exact, available at big pet stores like Petsmart, Petco, etc). Again they contain probiotics, vitamins, minerals. Unlike for baby parrots, you use warm - not hot - to keep the good bacteria alive (and prevent crop burn). It's very nutritionally dense as it's meant to grow up babies. Sometimes when they won't eat, this is a good nutritionally balanced way to get more nutrition into them as a paste.

On the yellow-egg poop, yes - flush her again. (Poor girl, and poor you!)

On rectal temperatures, yes - you can. Normal temperatures for a hen range from 105 to 107ish, sometimes 109 but that's the higher range.

You can buy penicillin injection at most feedstores in the refrigerator section. I'm sorry - I didn't include tha tinformation before - I will here.

Papaya is fine - but I think I wouldn't give that much. It throws off the calcium/phosphorus balance of their diet, and increase watery droppings - as well as changing the diet too much causing the good bacteria to be thrown off balance. ALl things in moderation, even the good stuff.

Do you do preserving/canning?

 

[threehorses]

Wow I am so braindead tonight - I'm so sorry

Here's the penicillin post finally. (blushing)

USING PENICILLIN G PROCAINE FOR POULTRY – by Nathalie Ross
Sometimes when faced with injured chickens or waterfowls we feel it is necessary to treat with antibiotics to either stop an infection, or prevent one from happening.
People often turn to their local feed store for packaged antibiotics, believing that they are appropriate for nearly all occasions. Unfortunately, these antibiotics in the water actually aren't the ones that work for infected 'wounds'. They are intended for respiratory illnesses and enteritis. The antibiotics that are appropriate for wounds are of the penicillin range, or penicillin related medicines. (Penicillin, Penicillin G Procaine, amoxicillin, etc). With the exception of amoxicillin, these drugs are most often (and most effectively) given by injection. This is particularly true of the penicillin drugs as they are very rough on the beneficial flora of the bird’s digestive tract if given orally.
Penicillin injection medicines are readily available at most feed stores; they are kept and stored in the refrigerator and should be at home as well. One of my preferred drugs for wound use, and commonly found in most stores, is Penicillin G Procaine (300,000 IU).
Penicillin is a mixture of drug particles (solids) in liquid (solution). The particles in the solution are quite large, the drug is quite thick (particularly when stored correctly in the refrigerator) so you need a larger needle to get the correct mixture of particles in solution for an injection.
Most feed stores carry 3 cc syringes pre-equipped with screw-on needles that are 25 gauge (smaller). Of course, to keep the syringe sterile, leave the needle on. The same feedstores often carry loose 18 gauge sterile needles. Buy one for each syringe. Just before you plan to pull the penicillin from the vial for the shot, remove the syringe from its packaging and unscrew the smaller needle, screw on the larger needle with its cap still on. Make sure it is screwed tightly.
Pulling the medicine: penicillin particles settle during storage. Shake the penicillin vial until the solids on the bottom are all mixed into the liquid. Uncap the syringe, and pull the plunger out 1/4cc. Push the needle into the rubber top of the vial and press the plunger to let the air into the vial. Then pull your dosage. Pull out the syringe, turn the needle up, and thump with your finger to dislodge any air bubbles from the syringe to the top of the syringe. Push the plunger gently to push out the air. Re-cap the needle; letting that syringe just come to nearly room temperature. Replace the vial into the refrigerator as soon as the injection is ‘pulled’.

Penicillin is given in the muscle (“IM” aka intramuscularly). On poultry/waterfowl, the best place to give the shot is either in the breast meat or in the thigh. I prefer in the breast meat as there is a great deal of meat, little bone, and few blood vessels.
Clean a spot far from the bone, in the middle of one half of the breast, with a tiny bit of alcohol on a bit of tissue. Uncap the syringe and put the needle into the skin – not terribly far. Less than ¼ inch for sure. Pull its plunger first and look for blood. This is to make sure the needle is not in a blood vessel. If you see blood, withdraw the needle and move the injection sight. Repeat. If you don't see blood, push the plunger in and then remove the syringe from the bird.

Pen G procaine is given daily for no more than four days. The dosage for poultry or waterfowl (under 10 pounds) is listed as less than 1/4 cc if the Penicillin G Procaine is 300,000 I.U. (which is most often is) for animals from 1-10 kg (each kg = 2 pounds, so 1-20 pounds). The dosage is actually listed as 1ml (cc) per 100 pounds of body weight, but giving 1/10th of a cc would be troublesome and it has a high safety margin.

 

[hale moa]

thank you so much ! i will try to get enough for 4 days. if i read correctly, once a day only. i took her temp but the thermometer only goes to 108 degrees so it read 108 degrees. i will go tomorrow and only hope i can locate this in my rural area but there are 2 feed stores.... much aloha, linnette

 

[NotTheMomma]

Could the papaya be causing the yellow poop?

 

[hale moa]

emma died this morning before i could make the 100 mile trip to a store. i dont think it was the papaya as they have eaten it for 1 1/2 years. the girl-happy rooster was a new thing though. i think it had something to do with that shell-less egg and emma always laid HUGE eggs . i know i should open her up and take a look, i just hate to do that to a pet. my hubby says i shouldnt name my chickens but i love each and every one. one thing i know, i am going to make up a first aid kit next trip into town. i sure appreciate this site, and all the help from everyone...mahalo, linnette

 

[threehorses]

I'm sorry to hear that you lost your Emma, hon. But you did try to help her. Sometimes the ones that lay the most heavy have issues later on down the road. I understand your not wanting to do a necropsy.

/hugs