Egg production dropped even with supplemental lighting-why?

[tweetzone86]

To all those on here who keep arguing about the supplemental lighting- please that is NOT what this post was about. Please read the OP and note that my chickens (RIR from a hatchery) are only SEVEN MONTHS OLD, so not molting age yet for starters (and yes, they're good layers of brown eggs, which is why I bought this breed). They have proper water and nutrition and 14 hours of lighting.

I don't treat my chickens like machines, for what it's worth. The only reason they don't completely free range is a) we're in a city/suburban area, and b) I've got neighbor cats who are intent on making a meal of them, or at least trying to anyway (plus hawks). They do range when we're outside, which isn't much with how cold it has been.

These birds have really been coddled a lot- held from the moment we received them, and the girls (6 and 9) love going out there and saying hi. I've sat on an overturned bucket out there just watching them digging around for worms when it was warmer. One jumped on my head and pooped on it- was originally on my shoulder.

These are pets as much as they are egg producers. But they are still agricultural animals, and since we're on one income due to my health, them paying for their feed is a help. It's not 100% necessary but it is a help. Eggs help me function, and now that I have chickens I flat out REFUSE to buy store-bought eggs ever again and contribute to that abominable factory-farm industry. My eventual goal is to raise all my milk, meat, eggs and what grains and produce I have space for and can grow in our climate zone (we are trying to find acreage to do so, but are stuck in suburbia in the meantime) so I can be rid of those industries altogether.

Thank you to all who didn't hammer me about using supplemental lighting and making helpful suggestions to help me figure out why production might have dropped. I am starting to think that it might be the snowy and rainy days we've had (New Mexico and Texas get a foot of snow, we get rain 2 hours from the Canadian border- how's that???). They don't go out when it's pouring and when there's snow on the ground, even though their door is open for them to do so, so maybe it's that overall effect that might have made a couple girls take more breaks than they have been.

Could we please stop the pro/con lighting issue? I know it's one where people can be passionate on both sides, but as for me I try to never forget that there are people on the other side of the keyboards and I try to be respectful to others even if I disagree with them. I have researched supplemental lighting- both pros and cons- quite extensively and that is how I came to my decision to go ahead and use lighting.

 

[tjb]

So, without reading all the above... I have approx 27 that are laying age {several different clutches}. And out of those, i have only 10 that are laying. a few weeks ago, I was only getting 3-4 daily at most. Past week has picked up to 8-10 daily so hopefully mine have become acclimated to the temperature fluctuation and production will continue to increase. {40's one day and 70's a few days later}
Also, we are having a dramatically wet winter here. SouthEast TX

just for FYI-no supplemental light--only because I haven't had time...
But, a few started to molt at 7 months--I think that is very unusual.

A friend of mine sprinkles cayenne pepper to the pellets to increase egg production. increases drinking water = more eggs??? I haven't tried it yet.

Good Luck...

 

[feathermaid]

It's possible that because your girls are young, they just started laying with exuberance, and now they're just tapering to their normal production. It's normal for RIR to lay 5 eggs per week. Sometimes you'll get more, and I've heard there's other things you can do to possibly increase their egg laying ability. Maybe offering a feed with higher protein content in winter with oyster shell on the side?

Everything I've ever researched pretty much suggests that pullets will lay eggs (once they start) thru their entire first year, regardless of light levels, it's been my experience as well. Usually, they won't go through their first molt until after 18 months (their 2nd or 3rd winter) which is typically when laying decreases or stops, and supplemental light becomes most beneficial. Maybe the light your offering now isn't really affecting them. I'm not an expert so I can't say for sure.

If you're looking to sustain a productive flock for years to come, rotating your hens may be necessary in the future. I wonder if leghorns would give you a better feed conversion ratio?

Also, @aart has a very good system for supplying light in winter and also giving her chickens a chance to molt. Maybe she could share her technique?

 

[aart]

Lighting is no guarantee.
My pullets all took some time off this winter despite 13+hrs supplemental lighting.
It may have had something to do with the decreasing light, despite the duration.

If they are totally confined, with no chance of laying elsewhere, then I dunno<shrugs>.
I seem to recall a 'using the nests' issue you had before....too tired to track it down this evening.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

To all those on here who keep arguing about the supplemental lighting- please that is NOT what this post was about. Please read the OP and note that my chickens (RIR from a hatchery) are only SEVEN MONTHS OLD, so not molting age yet for starters (and yes, they're good layers of brown eggs, which is why I bought this breed). They have proper water and nutrition and 14 hours of lighting.

I don't treat my chickens like machines, for what it's worth. The only reason they don't completely free range is a) we're in a city/suburban area, and b) I've got neighbor cats who are intent on making a meal of them, or at least trying to anyway (plus hawks). They do range when we're outside, which isn't much with how cold it has been.

These birds have really been coddled a lot- held from the moment we received them, and the girls (6 and 9) love going out there and saying hi. I've sat on an overturned bucket out there just watching them digging around for worms when it was warmer. One jumped on my head and pooped on it- was originally on my shoulder.

These are pets as much as they are egg producers. But they are still agricultural animals, and since we're on one income due to my health, them paying for their feed is a help. It's not 100% necessary but it is a help. Eggs help me function, and now that I have chickens I flat out REFUSE to buy store-bought eggs ever again and contribute to that abominable factory-farm industry. My eventual goal is to raise all my milk, meat, eggs and what grains and produce I have space for and can grow in our climate zone (we are trying to find acreage to do so, but are stuck in suburbia in the meantime) so I can be rid of those industries altogether.

Thank you to all who didn't hammer me about using supplemental lighting and making helpful suggestions to help me figure out why production might have dropped. I am starting to think that it might be the snowy and rainy days we've had (New Mexico and Texas get a foot of snow, we get rain 2 hours from the Canadian border- how's that???). They don't go out when it's pouring and when there's snow on the ground, even though their door is open for them to do so, so maybe it's that overall effect that might have made a couple girls take more breaks than they have been.

Could we please stop the pro/con lighting issue? I know it's one where people can be passionate on both sides, but as for me I try to never forget that there are people on the other side of the keyboards and I try to be respectful to others even if I disagree with them. I have researched supplemental lighting- both pros and cons- quite extensively and that is how I came to my decision to go ahead and use lighting.

My guess is it's just a natural ebb and flow. Production can go up and down depending on many factors. Many hens will lay consistently for a few weeks than take a few weeks off. I've seen that a lot in my heritage breeds.

 

[tweetzone86]

So, without reading all the above... I have approx 27 that are laying age {several different clutches}. And out of those, i have only 10 that are laying. a few weeks ago, I was only getting 3-4 daily at most. Past week has picked up to 8-10 daily so hopefully mine have become acclimated to the temperature fluctuation and production will continue to increase. {40's one day and 70's a few days later}
Also, we are having a dramatically wet winter here. SouthEast TX

just for FYI-no supplemental light--only because I haven't had time...
But, a few started to molt at 7 months--I think that is very unusual.

A friend of mine sprinkles cayenne pepper to the pellets to increase egg production. increases drinking water = more eggs??? I haven't tried it yet.

Good Luck...

Yeah you guys have had crazy weather down there! You're welcome to send some snow up our way...just saying...I'd rather have cold and snow than just two degrees too high for snow and cold, wet rain

I don't know if I want to try the cayenne pepper- it can be somewhat spendy at the store when sprinkled over 50 lbs of feed. Yeah, 7 month molt seems weird.

 

[tweetzone86]

It's possible that because your girls are young, they just started laying with exuberance, and now they're just tapering to their normal production. It's normal for RIR to lay 5 eggs per week. Sometimes you'll get more, and I've heard there's other things you can do to possibly increase their egg laying ability. Maybe offering a feed with higher protein content in winter with oyster shell on the side?

Everything I've ever researched pretty much suggests that pullets will lay eggs (once they start) thru their entire first year, regardless of light levels, it's been my experience as well. Usually, they won't go through their first molt until after 18 months (their 2nd or 3rd winter) which is typically when laying decreases or stops, and supplemental light becomes most beneficial. Maybe the light your offering now isn't really affecting them. I'm not an expert so I can't say for sure.

If you're looking to sustain a productive flock for years to come, rotating your hens may be necessary in the future. I wonder if leghorns would give you a better feed conversion ratio?

Also, @aart has a very good system for supplying light in winter and also giving her chickens a chance to molt. Maybe she could share her technique?

I do plan on rotating my flock when we have more space. Looking for acreage this summer. Will be tricky because it's hard to find bare land with a well on it already (we're building ourselves because builders are charging crazy high prices here- about $250 a square foot- and I grew up in construction and we have the know-how), but we are trying.

I wanted the brown egg layers because I can sell them for a higher price than white. Also, I know people say there's no difference in taste but I do taste it

I have a 20% feed now already (Purina Flock Raiser). I mixed OS in because of lack of space, but I only do a couple handfuls (and mind you I wear XS medical gloves and even they are a touch too long) per two gallon pitchers' worth (I mix as I go) so it's enough as a calcium source but not enough to dilute their feed I would think.

I will make it a point to tell the girls to stop tossing scratch every time they go in. I didn't think we gave too much, but I will at least make sure they aren't giving them more than I think they are.

 

[tweetzone86]

Lighting is no guarantee.
My pullets all took some time off this winter despite 13+hrs supplemental lighting.
It may have had something to do with the decreasing light, despite the duration.

If they are totally confined, with no chance of laying elsewhere, then I dunno<shrugs>.
I seem to recall a 'using the nests' issue you had before....too tired to track it down this evening.

My issue was one was laying on the floor and I haven't had that issue since I added a 4th nest box And believe me, when eggs dropped a bit I checked the coop and run thoroughly just in case

I wonder if the pitch darkness outside might be making the light less effective when the solstice days grow REALLY short? That would be another possibility.

 

[feathermaid]

I have a 20% feed now already (Purina Flock Raiser). I mixed OS in because of lack of space, but I only do a couple handfuls (and mind you I wear XS medical gloves and even they are a touch too long) per two gallon pitchers' worth (I mix as I go) so it's enough as a calcium source but not enough to dilute their feed I would think.

I will make it a point to tell the girls to stop tossing scratch every time they go in. I didn't think we gave too much, but I will at least make sure they aren't giving them more than I think they are.

Flock raiser is great! Though it is better to let them self regulate how much calcium they want. I just use tiny containers attached to the hardware cloth with little s-hooks (hardly takes any space at all) filled with free choice OS and grit.


The additional scratch could be a factor... it has very little nutritional content. and should be limited to only 10% or less of regular feed. You might already be know this, but chickens only eat approximately ¼ lb per day. So with 12 birds eating 4 lbs daily, they should only be getting about A HALF CUP of scratch and treats total for everyone. It's really easy to overfeed because scratch is irresistible and they would much prefer to fill their crops with it... possibly at the cost of producing eggs.

But in actuality, I think the real reason is because chickens are not machines... and they just do what they want, no matter how much we wish otherwise. My first batch of assorted breed girls all started laying at 18 weeks old... so why wouldn't all other chickens of the same breeds start laying at exactly that same age?
Well, of my (3) 34 week old pullets, only 1 has started laying... ONE!! Go figure.

 

[aart]

I don't know if I want to try the cayenne pepper- it can be somewhat spendy at the store when sprinkled over 50 lbs of feed.

You can sprinkle a bit on the feed in the feeder, you don't have to dose whole 50# bag.

I wonder if the pitch darkness outside might be making the light less effective when the solstice days grow REALLY short? That would be another possibility.

If light is bright enough where the birds are, it doesn't matter how dark it is outside. But I do think that maybe the cloudy days may have an effect (we have a lot of cloudy days here) as may the decrease of day length before Solstice. Unless you can control the light timer by minutes, they can sense that decrease.
Solstice is only one day, when the earth tilts and days begin to grow longer.
A month before and after Solstice days are still pretty short tho.
By end of January here, we'll have gained a good 30+ minutes.
Look at dateandtime.info to see the daily changes of sunrise and sunset times in your area.