Eggbound after sour crop -> euthanize?

[LindaNL]

Last week my 2.5yr old hen had a sour crop. We treated it by not feeding her for 2 days, and letting her vomit a few times. After 3 days she seemed cured, the other chickens still accepted her, so I let her back with the flock. The morning after I realized she wasn't eating...

I got her inside, massaged her crop, and suddenly I noticed that her abdomen was hard, it seemed like an egg was in there. So I examined her by inserting my finger in her vent. And yes, there was an OTHER egg (so 1 egg close to vent, and 1 in abdomen).

We gave her a bath with epsom salt, we put vaseline in her vent, we gave her calcium, we massaged her abdomen gently, put her inside (warm) and made a nice (dark) nest for her. NOTHING worked. Yesterday we went to the vet, he put some more lubricant in her vent and gave her some more calcium ($185). He said it would be very risky to get the eggs out, and suggested to give it 2 or 3 more days. Now she is eggbound for 5 days already (maybe more)!!!!

Our hen doesn't eat anymore, she does drink a bit. Her poop is solid in the morning, but watery during the day (she doesn't poop that often though). When I insert my finger in her vent it really feels like I'm touching skin, I'm not sure if the egg that is close to her vent is the first one that have to come out. Maybe the egg is pushing against her vent, while it's blocking the egg in her abdomen. Do I make sense? And could that be the case?

The hen seems to sleep a lot, but comes out of her nest sometimes (walks around, tail upright, washes herself,..). She doesn't really seem to try to push the eggs out . I think it might be time to euthanize her (by the vet), but my husband thinks we should wait some more. Is there anything more we could do for her, or is this just a matter of time....

Thanks!

 

[Wyorp Rock]

You are feeling 2 eggs?

I can only speculate, but what you are feeling is probably an egg mass or tumor in the abdomen due to reproductive disorder/internal laying like Salpingitis, Egg Yolk Peritonitis, cancer or tumors. These can cause some crop problems - masses, tumors, fluid, infection, ect. can cause a full or partial blockage on the intestines and internal organs. Essentially nothing is moving or moving very little.

If you have a vet, they can xray to look for masses or tumors.

I'm very sorry. I had a hen that started with a bloated/hard belly, eventually one thing lead to another, crop issues, not eating, not pooping, etc. I decided to put her out of her misery. I did an informal examination and found that she had masses in the abdomen that were blocking the intestines. There was nothing I could have done, but being able to see the cause (heartbreaking as it was) gave me some peace of mind.

If she does pass, sending her to your state lab for some answers may help or if you are up to it, examine her like some of us do at home. Take photos if you wish and post them - we can (hopefully) help you decipher what you see.

 

[rebrascora]

@Wyorp Rock

Thanks for tagging me. I had been following the thread(for some reason I hadn't put it in watching though so I appreciate the nudge) but you had it covered, so I had nothing more to add until those final photos.

@LindaNL

I'm so very sorry that we were not able to help your girl but I hope it is some comfort to know that you absolutely did the right thing to have her put to sleep. That is salpingitis and that mass of lash eggs in her oviduct must have been extremely uncomfortable for her and there is no way that she could ever have passed them, so you saved her from a slow and painful death.

Salpingitis is where an infection occurs in the oviduct. Sometimes it can be caused by a thin shelled egg breaking inside the hen or a hen that perhaps lays extra large eggs losing some of the elasticity of her cloaca and some faecal material entering the oviduct as a result. The infection generates puss which in chickens solidifies to a cheese like consistency. This is believed to be a mechanism by which the chicken's body prevents the spread of infection to other areas via the blood stream. Unfortunately this means the chicken does not appear sick and will continue to ovulate and deposit egg yolks into the oviduct on a daily basis as normal, but the egg yolks cannot get past the blockage and themselves become part of the cheesy infected mass, causing her to become backed up. For the first few day she may strain to try to pass them, but their irregular shape and increasing size make that all but impossible. Occasionally the first and smallest pieces are expelled and people find a "lash egg" in the nest box, but usually things happen pretty much without any obvious sign until it starts to obstruct the bowel and the bird becomes noticeably unwell as the digestive tract backs up.
This will probably have been going on for a week or more, whereas, if a bird is egg bound with an egg stuck in the cloaca, the bird is usually not able to poop at all and gets backed up very quickly... a matter of 2-3 days can prove fatal.

Internal laying is where the daily egg yolks released by the ovary fail to travel into the oviduct and instead drop into the abdominal cavity. There they build up amongst the intestines and liver until they put pressure on the organs like the liver, heart, lungs and intestines but this can go on for months and even over a year, depending on how prolific a layer the bird is. Sometimes they become infected resulting in Egg Yolk Peritonitis but often they don't. When cut open during a necropsy, the egg yolks have usually, mostly solidified and fluid from them leached out and settled in the lowest part of the abdomen forming ascites (water belly). Birds suffering with this often become incredibly heavy as well as bloated.

Anyway, sadly there was nothing that could have been done for your girl, but it is really helpful that your husband managed to open her up and take photos so that we can all gain a little more knowledge and experience through her.
Reproductive problems are the price that chickens pay for being so prolific with their egg laying. They did not evolve to this level of production but were selectively bred by man. Their system has not had the chance to developed to the point where it can take the wear and tear that daily laying 24/7 throughout the year puts on them. Breeds that have retained some of their natural instinct for broodiness and don't lay through the winter are less likely to develop these problems because their reproductive system gets regular breaks from egg laying..... perhaps something to consider if/when you restock. That said there are different problems that can affect other more broody birds, so there is no simple answer. Sadly, chickens are prone to many disorders and losses are inevitable sooner or later. Most of us know how heart rending those losses are to the loving owner and here at BYC we are here to help where we can and console when we can't. You could not have done more for your chicken. I'm so sorry we could not help you fix her.

 

[speckledhen]

You did very well with that. Yes, in the oviduct, it's salpingitis. I've seen egg gunk solid in the oviduct and in the abdomen both at the same time. It really is sort of a "distinction without a difference", as the saying goes. It's solidified egg material mixed with infection and whether in the oviduct or the abdomen, or both, it's terminal. And we don't know which it is until she's opened up on a table, sadly. Sorry for your loss.

It just galls me when the first thing recommended for chickens who stop laying in late fall is "put a light on 'em". It only contributes to the problem we see in those photos and ones I've posted. Bad enough without lights pushing them beyond what they should be doing.

 

[LindaNL]

Yes she is molting. The whole flock stopped laying about a month ago! We don't use an additional light during the night, so I figure this is just their 'resting period'.. (I hope!)

Thanks for the link, I understand that there is nothing to prevent it and nothing to do about it... Too bad that chickens are bred to produce (too) many eggs. I became to love chickens, even if they don't lay eggs!

 

[speckledhen]

Wow, I can't believe the vet charged me $185 for just the lubricant and calcium. You guys didn't even see the chicken and already helped me so much more than the vet..

I just tried to really feel the shape of the egg in her abdomen. The top and bottom seem to be the shape of an egg, but the rest just doesn't feel like an egg. When I massage her crop and abdomen, or give her a bath, I hear lots of gutsounds. When I put her on the ground again, she will immediately poop (see picture).

I'm pretty sure an xray to look for masses or tumors will unfortunately cost me too much , and if I know she has it, I will have to euthanize her anyway.. I could not cut her open once she is euthanized, but I'm sure my husband could do it (he had to cut in human corpses for his education).

I just wonder, if she is internally laying, why were there never any problems? She layed lots of eggs (more than the other chickens), and was never ever sick. And now, at the age of 2.5 she suddenly started to lay internally? Could there have been something that provoced it (like molting, cold weather, lice, food,..)? And should I be worried about the rest of my flok?

Thanks!

That is the age you start seeing it happen. I lost my first hatchery hen at just barely over 2 years old and then, they began dropping like flies.

As far as the vet goes, I know a few great ones, but there are the others who truly should refer you to someone who knows chickens better than they do. Chicken owners often do know more than the vet about their birds after years of keeping them and researching and learning.

What you may have been feeling are the cheesy masses that are indicative of internal laying, not actual eggs, per se. If she is a hatchery girl, it's actually very, very common. It's a hormone/genetic based malfunction, nothing you can cure or prevent and hatchery stock has sucky genetics for the most part. I've lost maybe 16 hens to that and/or egg yolk peritonitis and of those, only two were breeder quality hens. Now, I have 8, 9, 10 and almost 11 year old hens, some still laying, but none are hatchery girls.

This video that Wyorp Rock mentioned should help you understand a lot more about this issue:

 

[Wyorp Rock]

@LindaNL
Thank you so much for taking the time to share your photos. I'm sure it must have been hard to take a look. This will hopefully be helpful to others in the future.

I agree with @micstrachan it looks like "lash egg" or Salpingitis (infection of the oviduct). It appears there are at least 3 of them?

If it's any comfort at all, putting her down was a kind and loving thing to do. A hen cannot recover from this. I am so sorry.

If you don't mind, I want to tag a few people that would be interested in your thread and photos - @Eggcessive @casportpony @coach723 @rebrascora

 

[rebrascora]

@Morrigan

Hi

I'm sorry to hear that your hatchery birds are developing problems like this at a relatively young age. Unfortunately there are other health issues associated with buying from a breeder (Marek's Disease for one) which may be as bad or worse, so I'm not necessarily advocating buying from a breeder, but just making people aware of the reason why these reproductive problems are so common.
Very few people seem to realise that eggs are actually a seasonal product like everything else. We are so used to being able to buy them whenever we want them, that we assume hens naturally lay eggs throughout the year and pop them out every day, but it is mankind's selective breeding and tampering with their environment that has lead to this situation. Birds naturally lay eggs to raise chicks, so they lay a few and then go broody to hatch them. Laying day after day, week after week without a break is bound to result in system failures sooner or later. It is why the industry culls egg layers at 18 months or 30 months, if they are lucky.

All we can do is care for our chickens as well as we can, be knowledgeable about these issues and make informed decisions in the best interests of the birds, when they are necessary.

Best wishes

Barbara

 

[Morrigan]

@Morrigan

Hi

I'm sorry to hear that your hatchery birds are developing problems like this at a relatively young age. Unfortunately there are other health issues associated with buying from a breeder (Marek's Disease for one) which may be as bad or worse, so I'm not necessarily advocating buying from a breeder, but just making people aware of the reason why these reproductive problems are so common.
Very few people seem to realise that eggs are actually a seasonal product like everything else. We are so used to being able to buy them whenever we want them, that we assume hens naturally lay eggs throughout the year and pop them out every day, but it is mankind's selective breeding and tampering with their environment that has lead to this situation. Birds naturally lay eggs to raise chicks, so they lay a few and then go broody to hatch them. Laying day after day, week after week without a break is bound to result in system failures sooner or later. It is why the industry culls egg layers at 18 months or 30 months, if they are lucky.

All we can do is care for our chickens as well as we can, be knowledgeable about these issues and make informed decisions in the best interests of the birds, when they are necessary.

Best wishes

Barbara

So, so true. Through selective breeding, we've definitely turned chickens into something they are not meant to be. I still love raising chickens, even knowing this, however. I do the best I can by them. I don't use supplemental lighting and I try, the the greatest extent practicable, to let broody hens hatch out eggs. I feel very fortunate to have 6 hatchery chickens approaching 5 years old, with 3 of them still laying well and near the top of the pecking order.

The hard lesson for me has been how many reproductive problems hens can get and how good they can be at hiding them. It's so difficult to make the decision to end a chicken's life, particularly since you are almost always making educated guesses, rather than knowing "for sure" what the situation is. I really appreciate posters like @LindaNL for sharing their stories and helping give me the knowledge and will to do the right thing.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

Are you sure it is egg binding? The stress of sour crop and the fasting is likely to stop ovulation. I don't think an egg bound bird can survive 5 days without passing the egg.