Egyptian Fayoumis Thread!

[microchick]

Do you worm your birds regularly and do you change your wormers periodically? The reason that I ask is that I had penned up birds that started to die and it was suggested that it was Marek's. Well...if it really is Marek's then basically 98% of your birds die very quickly and your property is contaminated for years to come. The only birds that will survive will be carriers and only vaccinated birds can be kept (even Fayoumis) and all those birds will become carriers as vaccinated birds still get the disease, they just don't become symptomatic (and you'd never want to sell birds, eggs or really even go to the feed store). BUT...most things that affect chickens (disease or parasites) affect the legs and a sick bird can appear very much like a bird with Marek's. A necropsy showed that my birds had capillary worms. This was a surprise because I wormed regularly with Ivermectin but as it turns out Ivermectin doesn't do a very good job against capillary worms. I switched to Safeguard and suddenly I had no more sick birds. More recently my egg numbers started to drop so I changed wormers and the egg numbers jumped right back up. It's pretty cheap to worm your birds and easy if you use Wazine or something like that. If you don't worm your birds ever I'd suggest at least trying it and see if they don't all get instantly better.

Thank for the reply, Rob. Yes, I do worm regularly and do switch wormers also. I have a coccidia problem on our property so I worm with corrid twice a year then in the spring use Wazine. I ran Safeguard through them in Feb due to a suspected capillary worm infestation and I'm getting ready to use Ivermectin on them this month for mites and lice and whatever internal parasites that the Safeguard didn't get. Sort of a mop up treatment.

I lost my last bird this past Sunday when I had to put my darling and very beautiful Welsummer rooster down due to sudden onset respiratory distress and cyanosis. He was near death and I couldn't bear to watch him suffer any longer. He was only two years old and the last rooster I had from my original flock. Three weeks earlier I had a 13 month old rooster who had been suffering from neurological problems and seizures for the past 4 months suddenly develop cyanosis and die in my arms. None of my birds have developed the one leg forward one back splits of Marek's and only one has developed what can only be described as a loss of balance and co-ordination.

I lost the first rooster last spring in June to an anemia that persisted even after worming and from there I lost another cockerel to sudden cardiac death, his daughter who was at POL to the same end and a 7 month old darling of a BO cockerel to seizures and paralysis. All of my deaths so far have been to my roosters, (breeding stress) and the only pullet was at POL. I've talked already to a doctor at Mizzou's Veterinary Medicine lab about my losses and he didn't deny that it sounds like Marek's especially since I have two hens with pin point pupils that are unequal and one with unmistakenable gray eye. I plan to send my next death to them for necropsy but till then, I'm going with the reality of having Marek's on my property. As the old saying goes, if it quacks like a duck, swims like a duck and walks like a duck, it probably is a duck.

So I know I will probably loose more birds. So far my bantams haven't developed any symptoms but that is subject to change. I have possibly 5 more birds that are under the microscope right now as far as showing symptoms. But I won't give up, which is why I am looking for a breed of chicken that will stand a chance of surviving whatever strain of Marek's that we have on our property. My flock was supposedly bred for natural resistance but like the doctor I talked to told me, by the time your chickens are old enough to tell you that they have natural immunity, they are usually too old to reproduce.

Thank you for answering one question that I forgot to ask and that was if I needed to bring Fayoumi chicks in vaccinated. I have no idea where this infection came from. BUT there are Amish farms all around us and they all have chickens. If a chicken dies they don't try to figure out what killed it. They just throw it in a ravine and get more chickens. Plus there are birds everywhere and wild turkeys. I don't handle anyone else's birds and no body else's birds come on our property, and yes, my flock is officially closed.

 

[RobG7aChattTN]

W

If birds aren't acting wormy do you deworm anyway on a schedule? This is my first flock, no chickens have been on this property for at least 20 years and they free-range about 5 acres. Should I deworm just because? I really don't like to medicate unless there's a reason. They'll be a year old in June.

Well...if you free range worms aren't usually much of a problem but even then I'd worm at least spring and fall. It doesn't matter that no poultry were on the property as they get worms because of all the wild birds. I don't know what "acting wormy" means because usually birds have worms and can show no symptoms...often until the point of death. With capillary worms I'd often go out and do something with the birds and they'd seem fine and then an hour later I'd find a dead or dying bird. The birds that were dying would be sprawled out, unable to walk. Sometimes they'd linger for a few days in quarantine...eating and drinking but not using their legs...and then they'd be dead. Others died right after I'd find them. Sometimes worms will build up and the birds will seem fine until they get to the level that the bird gets "clogged up" with them. If your birds free range they certainly have two or three (or more) species of parasitic worms in their system and knocking those out temporarily will at least give them a little boost of vigor that might help their immune system focus on other issues. I'd say there is absolutely no harm in worming them and it could do a lot of good.

 

[RobG7aChattTN]

Thank for the reply, Rob. Yes, I do worm regularly and do switch wormers also. I have a coccidia problem on our property so I worm with corrid twice a year then in the spring use Wazine. I ran Safeguard through them in Feb due to a suspected capillary worm infestation and I'm getting ready to use Ivermectin on them this month for mites and lice and whatever internal parasites that the Safeguard didn't get. Sort of a mop up treatment.

I lost my last bird this past Sunday when I had to put my darling and very beautiful Welsummer rooster down due to sudden onset respiratory distress and cyanosis. He was near death and I couldn't bear to watch him suffer any longer. He was only two years old and the last rooster I had from my original flock. Three weeks earlier I had a 13 month old rooster who had been suffering from neurological problems and seizures for the past 4 months suddenly develop cyanosis and die in my arms. None of my birds have developed the one leg forward one back splits of Marek's and only one has developed what can only be described as a loss of balance and co-ordination.

I lost the first rooster last spring in June to an anemia that persisted even after worming and from there I lost another cockerel to sudden cardiac death, his daughter who was at POL to the same end and a 7 month old darling of a BO cockerel to seizures and paralysis. All of my deaths so far have been to my roosters, (breeding stress) and the only pullet was at POL. I've talked already to a doctor at Mizzou's Veterinary Medicine lab about my losses and he didn't deny that it sounds like Marek's especially since I have two hens with pin point pupils that are unequal and one with unmistakenable gray eye. I plan to send my next death to them for necropsy but till then, I'm going with the reality of having Marek's on my property. As the old saying goes, if it quacks like a duck, swims like a duck and walks like a duck, it probably is a duck.

So I know I will probably loose more birds. So far my bantams haven't developed any symptoms but that is subject to change. I have possibly 5 more birds that are under the microscope right now as far as showing symptoms. But I won't give up, which is why I am looking for a breed of chicken that will stand a chance of surviving whatever strain of Marek's that we have on our property. My flock was supposedly bred for natural resistance but like the doctor I talked to told me, by the time your chickens are old enough to tell you that they have natural immunity, they are usually too old to reproduce.

Thank you for answering one question that I forgot to ask and that was if I needed to bring Fayoumi chicks in vaccinated. I have no idea where this infection came from. BUT there are Amish farms all around us and they all have chickens. If a chicken dies they don't try to figure out what killed it. They just throw it in a ravine and get more chickens. Plus there are birds everywhere and wild turkeys. I don't handle anyone else's birds and no body else's birds come on our property, and yes, my flock is officially closed. 

If your flock was bred for resistance to Marek's I wonder if that means that the parent flock is made up of carriers? If so, they could be resistant birds that produce resistant offspring (easily contaminated even if eggs were mailed to you) and then any additional stress would cause the Marek's to kick in. The only surprise is that your other breeds haven't come down with Marek's.
It's worth noting that one of the birds that I sent off for necropsy came back with a diagnosis of "consistent with Marek's". I freaked out and called the state vet. He said that it was probably just the lab guy jumping to conclusions and that it was probably just the worm issue again. I had been working just every 6 months and he said to worm with Safeguard EVERY month and I never lost another bird after that. So...not Marek's. You have to take the necropsy results with a grain of salt. It WILL tell you what the worm loads are though.

 

[microchick]

And the funny thing about capillary worms is that they are readily passed on in earth worms. Ever tried to keep a chicken away from eating earth worms after a heavy rain? It's like a stampede at a free all you can eat buffet in my coop after a heavy rain. When I read the dirty truth about earth worms I immediately ordered Safeguard from my internet sales store.

@wild chick one thing I watch for in my flock is diarrhea. If more than a couple birds are passing runny poo I begin to suspect coccidia and run a treatment through the whole flock just to be careful. It's amazing how fast it stops the runs in infested birds.


@RobG7aChattTN I'm holding my breath with my bantams. The eggs that hatched them came from one of our Amish neighbors lat fall and more this past Feb that I hatched in my incubator. I have a BO hen sitting on 5 eggs right now which will be the second generation from my original 4 birds. I have a joking opinion of these birds. If you saw the farm they were bred on you would understand that they had to be survivors and resistant to anything that creeps crawls or flies. They told me they were hardy little birds that they really liked so I assume that he has had no suspicious losses from his flock if he even knows. Geesh, I know that sounds terrible but it sadly is the truth. I really wasn't suspecting Marek's in my flock until last week when I saw a pullet with gray eye. I had a couple chickens with weird pupils but no gray eye so I was suspecting either genetics or mating injury. Only my hens/pullets are showing ocular problems with the exception of one rooster who has a pinpoint pupil but otherwise healthy. The birds I have lost have all exhibited neurological and or cardiac/lung symptoms. I have one hen 25 months old who is thinner than I would like in spite of having a healthy appetite and regular worming and one rooster who is just well, plain weird. Low weight, uncoordinated but he just keeps perking along. The rest of my flock of standards, BO and Welsummer pure bred or cross bred, are all apparently healthy, good keel bone ratings, good appetites, good layers (hens) and breeders (roosters) with the exceptions that I've mentioned. All of my losses started last June when my original flock was a year or more old. The only thing that sets off an alarm in my head is that I brought in about 5 pullets (one turned out to be a rooster who died last fall) from the same breeder when they were approx. 4 months old. I didn't isolate them like I would any other new bird simply because they were from the same breeder and only separated in age by 3 or 4 months. IDK. I'm grasping at straws and trying to work out a plan so hopefully next year I can start building up my flock again.

 

[wild chick]

I'm learning so much here on BYC, thanks again for sharing info. @RobG7aChattTN thanks for the deworm info. I have lots of experience with dogs/cats/horses so "acting wormy" meant to me, loosing weight while eating normally, loss of healthy coat (feathers in a chicken, I was guessing), and generally not thrifty. I'm learning fast that the 4 leggeds symptoms don't transfer to the feathered flock. Horses get several species of worms via manure of another horse with worms, thus my comment about a clean start for the free range chickens. I'll look up a deworm schedule for these, even tho they look & act fine. I am questioning the hardiness of hatchery breeds now, which I never thought of with chickens when I ordered these. I'm totally happy with what I got with the exception of one GLW that had terrible feathering problems (at first I thought it was just slow, but when he finally got feathers they came in backwards and that's a whole 'nother post). I thought Heritage + Free Range would be the best deal for health, and really I'm happy for the most part. And for this particular thread, I'm so glad my free chick was an EF, because I'm totally impressed by them, as long as you don't want a pet. @microchick I am so sorry about your losses! I am hoping I never see what you are going though. Are you raising chickens for fun, eggs, meat? Sounds like you have a lot. Best wishes on your recovery and if you love a high drive chicken, self sufficient chicken, you'll like the EF, if my one cockerel was typical.

 

[floodthelast]

Did anyone answer the question about how much cold the Fayoumi can take? Also how do I pronounce Fayoumi?

 

[PraiseGod]

Did anyone answer the question about how much cold the Fayoumi can take? Also how do I pronounce Fayoumi?

I live in North West montana and I own one. She did great last winter. I was slightly worried at first but after after she survived the first cold snap, I was OK. She had no problem with the snow. Also I use no heat or lights.

 

[microchick]

Thanks Wild Chick. Yes, I have lost 7 birds since last June. I had 54 birds and I am now down to 47. My birds are mainly a hobby....that keeps hatching, LOL but I do have them for eggs and meat in case of an emergency. Right now I have a hen sitting on 5 eggs my own two bantam hens provided.

I really worry about those little embryos.

I am a retired nurse and have lived in the country most of my life with pets from chickens to horses and everything in between in my life my whole life so I know they die, heck we all die, but I just never expected to be dealing with this in my flock, not with no birds having been on our property for over 6 years when I started out with chicks..

Time will tell. I really appreciate your kind words.

 

[floodthelast]

I live in North West montana and I own one. She did great last winter. I was slightly worried at first but after after she survived the first cold snap, I was OK. She had no problem with the snow. Also I use no heat or lights.

I'm so glad to hear that. Cleo is one of my friendliest pullets and I'd hate to lose her. She is such a sweetie. Always comes to my shoulder even without treats. She is 7 weeks old so far but a really nice surprise in personality.

 

[wild chick]

I'm so glad to hear that. Cleo is one of my friendliest pullets and I'd hate to lose her. She is such a sweetie. Always comes to my shoulder even without treats. She is 7 weeks old so far but a really nice surprise in personality.