Egyptian Fayoumis Thread!

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Your welcome. I'll have to pick your brain on some questions from people who had chickens 30 to 40 years ago! Somehow I'm thinking things aren't the same. I hope you don't have Mareks. Fingers crossed.

My thoughts exactly. It's true, things aren't the same at all. A late friend of mine who is dearly missed was 93 years old several years ago and told me that in all of his life, much of which was spent on a farm and then on a homestead and talking extensively with friends (many of which were the farmers in his agricultural county and kept large numbers of poultry), there was never a time this bad before. There are many reasons for this. One, antibiotic abuse that has led to 'superbugs'. Another, no one ever used these modern conventional 'feeds' that don't always disclose all of their ingredients and some contain blood and bone meal from diseased commercial/industrial animals which can lead to problems for the animals consuming such contaminated feed. And some of it is unintentionally caused by our own ignorance of important considerations that were once common knowledge to poultry keepers and breeders at the beginning of the last century. Basically, what it all boils down to is that the conventional way we've been breeding and raising poultry -- and yes, that painfully means some of us small flock owners too -- is not working. And as the wiser old-timers used to say, if something is not working that means something was wrong to begin with. I think we could all learn a lot from those who used to breed and keep healthy chickens successfully back then. That doesn't mean that you'll never encounter a challenging situation or health problem. What it does potentially mean, however, is that there would be far fewer incidents if things were done in a different manner, one following the laws of nature. Please try to understand that I do NOT mean any offense by this, I myself have had to make changes and continue to educate myself and improve. But to help us all along in our quest for information, here is some old-time breeding and raising advice I've found thus far:

The Complete Herbal Handbook for Farm and Stable by Juliette de Bairacli Levy
http://books.google.com/books/about/The_Complete_Herbal_Handbook_for_Farm_an.html?id=Rni4QgAACAAJ

(The author, Juliette Levy, went to a British veterinary school but could not stomach the dissection of the animals there and went on to become famous in Europe for curing canine distemper during the epidemic in England and published a book on her findings in 1930. An accomplished author and a world-renowned herbalist, she was regarded highly by Sir Albert Howard, founder of the Soil Association and creator of modern day “organic” farming methods. She was also a fine breeder, her line of Afghan Hound dogs were sought after by royalty. She kept all types of poultry and raised chickens most of her life and there is some info on poultry in the book mentioned above.)

I think this next one is such an important book that it's worth repeating it's recommendation. It is shocking as to how many ailment could be prevented by proper coop design. The title is:
Fresh Air Poultry Houses
by Prince T. Woods, M.D.
And here's a sample chapter:
http://www.nortoncreekpress.com/wor...es_a/fresh-air-poultry-houses-sample-chapter/

The Livestock Conservancy has some really useful information you can download for free: https://livestockconservancy.org/index.php/resources
And for chickens in particular: http://livestockconservancy.org/index.php/heritage/internal/chicken-manual

I remember attending a workshop by 'Dr. McBug' at the first Heritage Harvest Festival at Monticello and he was remembering how when he visited a chemical-free farm in China he asked the farmer where he learned that particular method he used so successfully to effectively control the pests that would otherwise have ruined his crops, WITHOUT insecticides; much to his surprise the Chinese farmer replied that he had learned that method from reading a USDA document written back in 1952(!). You see, the USDA used to have better advice back then, some of which might be found here: https://www.nal.usda.gov/afsic/great-places-find-information-about-farming-alternatives

And there are organic, non-GMO feeds out there, some are even soy-free, corn-free or both. New Country Organics is highly recommended but there is enough demand for safer, alternative feeds that there are a number of more natural feeds available throughout the country, by mail-order if need be. Demand that your local feed store start carrying it if they don't already. This isn't a trend, it's a way of life - the way it used to be for thousands of years and the way it always should have been. Common sense dictates that you shouldn't feed sick animal remains to animals. Period. And everyone should have access to clean and safe food for their animals, it's our birthright. After all, a lot of us are going to be eating the eggs....

[DISCLAIMER: This posting exists as an informational and educational resource only. I do not provide medical or veterinarian advice nor do I offer prevention, diagnosis, treatment, or cures for any diseases or medical conditions. Please consult a health or veterinary professional for medical and veterinarian advice—do not consult my writings. These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA. Remedies are not intended to treat, cure, prevent or mitigate disease. Only your body, or the body of an animal, can cure itself and prevent disease. I am not a medical or veterinarian professional or physician. Therefore, these writings are for informational and educational purposes only. ]
 
Did anyone answer the question about how much cold the Fayoumi can take? Also how do I pronounce Fayoumi?

Glenn Drowns who runs Sand Hill Preservation Center does not provide any heating in his breeding pens in the winter and he has kept Egyptian Fayoumis for many, many years. They're in Iowa where -20 degrees F is not uncommon in the winter -- it can even get to -25 F!

Other than some frostbite damage on the male's combs, which ALL breeds with large combs are susceptible to in freezing weather, they were just fine. How cold does it get where you'd be thinking of keeping them? I know there are certain designs of chicken coops that help prevent frostbite, even as far north as Massachusetts, as this famous breeder successfully used this method, which is described in his book: http://www.nortoncreekpress.com/wor...es_a/fresh-air-poultry-houses-sample-chapter/
 
I've read that birds have been cross bred with ef's to increase disease resistance. I'm guessing this was was an ef roo to other breed hen match? I have an ef hen and an Easter Egger roo. Right now they are the same size at 13 weeks old. I expect her to be a bit bigger than him a full grown. Would a cross be possible? I know I would have to find her possibly hidden eggs but I do have broody type hens.
 
Glenn Drowns who runs Sand Hill Preservation Center does not provide any heating in his breeding pens in the winter and he has kept Egyptian Fayoumis for many, many years. They're in Iowa where -20 degrees F is not uncommon in the winter -- it can even get to -25 F!

Other than some frostbite damage on the male's combs, which ALL breeds with large combs are susceptible to in freezing weather, they were just fine. How cold does it get where you'd be thinking of keeping them? I know there are certain designs of chicken coops that help prevent frostbite, even as far north as Massachusetts, as this famous breeder successfully used this method, which is described in his book: http://www.nortoncreekpress.com/wor...es_a/fresh-air-poultry-houses-sample-chapter/
I think we sometimes hit -15 but -8 is more likely. My coop is cinderblock but very large inside. 12x20 maybe. There are nice big windows. She does have some 8lb Cochins to roost with. She is on very good terms with the flock and never roosts alone.
 
You make interesting comments JadeMagnolia. I'm raising my first chickens ever, an order of 10 each Silver & Gold Wyandottes + the free exotic from McMurray. They were all healthy & all 21 made it to 5 months. (one GW had a non-fatal but serious feathering problem, but he was a he, so was eventually in the freezer) The free chick was an E F (rooster of course) and I was smitten with him. We knew we would dispatch the boys to the freezer, and the plan was to keep one or two boys, and I had made up my mind to keep the EF, he impressed me so much. He died for unknown reasons on Thanksgiving day at 5 months old. We think he ate something poisonous as none of the others got sick. I posted a picture of him on this thread if you go back far enough... On the note of how things have changed: I think the aggressiveness of the roosters coming from hatcheries is now the new normal. Who use to have bald hens or hens wearing saddles 50 years ago? To read on these forums it is just something you deal with. My best friend is 76 years old and she said they had mixed barnyard chickens for years and no chickens wore clothes and none were bald, you didn't have to take a stick to beat off a rooster when you went to the barn & hens didn't get moved to isolation to set a nest & raise chicks. I tend toward wanting to let nature take its course, but I think these might self destruct if left alone! Since the girls are good layers, I can see how backyard owners with no roosters would never have a problem, but we want a few for the freezer each year, so a rooster is necessary. We choose Wyandottes for their cold hardiness, ability to free range & good meat & egg production. EF's didn't even enter the radar until the free one came with our order. I did see that EF's (and Orloffs) are available from Sand Hill this year, but sold out currently. Looks like they will have them available at a later hatch date this year. I can't order 25 chicks though & that's their minimum, as you probably know. I would replace my W roo with an EF roo if the opportunity came up, and see what the W / EF cross was like.
 
Does anyone remember how old their pullets were when they started laying? Mine is at 17 1/2 weeks now. She is also just a bit smaller than my bantam Easter Egger Rooster so a cross might be possible later on.
 
Marek's finally showed itself in my Bantam chiickens. I lost one 5 week old pullet to typical Marek's paralysis and had one of my 8 month old cockerels drop dead without any symptoms of being ill. He was happily acting like a rooster one nightc and the next morning was dead. My losses at this point are up to 13 birds with an additional 6 showing definite signs of Mareks that I suspect will die sometime in the near future.

I am still planning to go ahead with my plan to introduce Fayoumi's into my flock next year. My standard sized BO and Welly girls are all at least a year old now and my eldest will be 3 next March and their laying is beginning to drop off. I've had one Welsummer hen that I had to put down due to what only can be Marek's. She had weight loss and sudden decline, and came over to me one morning and set down beside me all fluffed up and her eyes closed. When I picked her up she weighed nothing. Just skin, bones and feathers. At this point I am uncertain as to whether or not I'm going to cross breed my standards or cross breed my bantams with the fayoumi's. It will probably be the bantams as I would like to eliminate the standards in favor of the littler birds.

I want to thank everyone who has posted. I've learned a lot about the breed along with disease resistance from what I have read. Great stuff guys. It makes me more than ever stick to my plan about adding this interesting breed to my flock
 
Does anyone remember how old their pullets were when they started laying? Mine is at 17 1/2 weeks now. She is also just a bit smaller than my bantam Easter Egger Rooster so a cross might be possible later on.
I can't answer about the egglaying, but was wondering if your pullet has stayed friendly as she grew up? That photo of her sitting on your shoulder impressed me. My cockerel that I loved so much wouldn't let me near him.
 
Marek's finally showed itself in my Bantam chiickens. I lost one 5 week old pullet to typical Marek's paralysis and had one of my 8 month old cockerels drop dead without any symptoms of being ill. He was happily acting like a rooster one nightc and the next morning was dead. My losses at this point are up to 13 birds with an additional 6 showing definite signs of Mareks that I suspect will die sometime in the near future.

I am still planning to go ahead with my plan to introduce Fayoumi's into my flock next year. My standard sized BO and Welly girls are all at least a year old now and my eldest will be 3 next March and their laying is beginning to drop off. I've had one Welsummer hen that I had to put down due to what only can be Marek's. She had weight loss and sudden decline, and came over to me one morning and set down beside me all fluffed up and her eyes closed. When I picked her up she weighed nothing. Just skin, bones and feathers. At this point I am uncertain as to whether or not I'm going to cross breed my standards or cross breed my bantams with the fayoumi's. It will probably be the bantams as I would like to eliminate the standards in favor of the littler birds.

I want to thank everyone who has posted. I've learned a lot about the breed along with disease resistance from what I have read. Great stuff guys. It makes me more than ever stick to my plan about adding this interesting breed to my flock

I'm so sorry about your Mareks. If I never bring a new chicken onto my isolated farm (no chickens within 5 miles - we are surrounded by Natl forest) am I safe? Or is this something songbirds can bring in. Also we have wild turkeys. Of course I want some new breeds and a kinder rooster. And I definitely can't live out the rest of my life without eventually getting another EF! How do you avoid this disease?
 
Unfortunately, I have no idea how it happened. My birds were bought from an NPIP breeder who bred for resistance and did not vaccinate. I practice good bio security, but I wouldn't be surprised if it came in from another farm near us or came in on wild birds. I lost my first bird, a beloved rooster, when he was just a year old. Mysterious decline and death. Nothing we did helped. Looking back it was my first Marek's loss. From then on the losses have been fairly steady.

I was getting ready to send a bird in for necropsy when it dawned on me that I had my own doctor who could give me a diagnosis. Several hens and a rooster at that time had developed grey eye and pinpoint pupils and my husband is a retired eye doctor. He used his portable slit lamp and examined their eyes one night and gave me the diagnosis of ocular herpes. Since Marek's is a herpes infection that causes grey eye, I had my diagnosis. Some of my birds have the grey eyed version of the disease, others have developed wasting and death, others have developed neurological disorders. It looks like all three versions of Marek's are on our property.

The best offense I have found against Marek's is to buy vaccinated birds and practice good biosecurity. But since biosecurity can never be 100% I think it falls back on vaccinating and breeding resistant stock if you are in an are where Marek's is a common disease.

Keep your birds well wormed and pounce on any infections that pop up like a duck on a June bug. Make sure you isolate any new birds you bring in to your flock.

My birds seem to be more prone to infections due to their weakened immune systems. My latest was a Welsummer rooster who showed up with a horribly swollen eye. Close inspection showed that he had been pecked near or on his eye. He lived on our deck for two weeks in a cage where we could dose him and his eye twice a day with antibiotics.Luckily, he pulled through and I am very glad as he is one of my favorite boys.

For my flock, breeding stress seems to be a big trigger for the disease popping up. I try to keep my number of roosters/cockerels down to a reasonable number with my girls but still there are going to be exceptions where what you don't think is stressful for your birds, your birds will think otherwise.

Finding out that Fayoumi's are resistant to MD almost made me weep with relief. I love having a flock underfoot and saw a gloomy future for my desire to keep birds until somebody on another thread told me about Fayoumi's.

I have a steady supply of broodies that are keeping me supplied in chicks at the moment. I know there is a chance that a percentage of them will die prematurely at some point but the ones that survive will be resistant.

I sincerely hope that you never experience this heartbreak in your flock. It's a never ending nightmare when you do.
 

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