Electric fence but my chicken don’t feel it

[Howard E]

So you remain a skeptic? Good.....I always enjoy taking on skeptics.

So I don't have enough experience to make these claims? How about this guy....who is a sometimes BYC poster and the source of my ideas on electric fences:

http://www.plamondon.com/wp/

When I first read his stuff, I had my doubts too, but then I tried it, and to my surprise, it works just as he said it would. But because I have such a small area to cover in relation to Bob, I went two steps further and use 4 wires around the perimeter. But once trained to a hot wire, even 1 wire will work on my birds.

But as to your questions.......

I’m not trying to lessen your achievements. I’m just saying when it comes to predator management I would think more experience would be required before passing on solid advice.

The reference to experience is a double edged sword. It would also take experience using the system I advocate before concluding it does not work. That does not seem to be the case here. I sense NO experience with this system. Doubts yes.....experience no.

I’ve seen a lab pup run full speed through 7 wires of hot fencing. Not the norm I know but it can happen.

Yes it could.....and I have witnessed a Great Dane / English Pointer mix......a big, high energy dog run into my fence and knocked it half down in the process, but got zapped, let out a yelp, ran for the back door and layed down cowering in fear. Looking very humble and submissive. He never went near it again. Keep in mind, my fence tests out to 13,000 volts. That is not a trivial thing. Most animals have never felt such pain and will go to extreme lengths to avoid having that happen again.

Then there was the pit bull mix that came charging at me last winter. He hit the fence at speed, got zapped and didn't stop running until he was about 50 yards away. Sniffed the air a few times and left and never came back.

Then there was the neighbor's dog...the one who wears a muzzle when it is out and about.... who was pulling a sneak attack on the birds running around in the yard. Dog walked into the fence, got zapped, let out a yelp and left. Neighbor's garden is no more than 50 feet or so from the fence. When they are out doing gardening, that same dog is often with them.....chickens in full view no more than 100 feet away and I've seen the dog lay down and look the other way.

Those are just three examples. Have seen 4 or 5 other dogs get it and the result is always the same. They leave and don't come back.

I have game hens that will low crawl under wire that’s about 3-4 inches off the ground.

What type of wire? Woven wire livestock? Welded wire? Chain link? In short, are these 3 to 4 inch gaps under a physical fence? Or a single strand hot wire of the type I describe?

When my birds encounter the single strand hot wire, they never try to crawl under it, most step on it to step over it. They ride it to the ground. It may take a few crossings before they get it....what I call a training interval.....one foot on the hot wire, one foot on the ground and that has to happen during the one second interval when the fence fires......but eventually they do get it. Again, that is all part of training them to the wire. Once it gets them, it lights them up on the bottom of their foot.....you know it has happened when one of them launches about 5 feet in the air and starts cackling to beat the band........then they don't do it again. So why don't they just hop over? I can only speculate.....they know they cannot touch the fence or else risk getting zapped, and likely they fear that what awaits them on the other side when they come down is the same. So they won't leave their feet to risk coming down on another jolt. Far safer to stay put....so they do. Again, it is that fear of pain that weighs on their mind that seems to be what makes it work so well.

Some of my layers will fly over the fence some will stay in. Like I said it depends on the breed.
If you’ve only had a dozen or two chickens for a few years I just don’t see how you can make a determination that your system works so good.

I am assuming they are flying over physical fences? Mine can easily do the same, and do. Yet they do not fly over the E-fences. But as for an E-fence, how could anyone who hasn't tried it make a determination it doesn't?

How many animals have you seen the fence stop? Do you have animals harassing birds just outside the wire?

About 6 or 7 dogs. No predators....and in 3 years, have never seen a predator of any type inside the wire and never ever see anything pacing outside the wire. Once they tangle with it, and most do, they give it a wide berth. More like avoid it entirely.

Two winters ago, I did notice tracks in the snow where what looked like a fox got in (at night in the dark when the birds were safely locked up) got zapped, paced around all over trying to find a way out, and then jumped out. Distance between tracks suggested it was a high speed escape. That is a common reaction....they escape with some speed up, hoping to get past...punch through the danger zone ASAP. They don't do that going in. Only going out.

Snow lasted about a week and there were no more tracks. Again, part of the training of animals. They are all attracted to the birds, get zapped, leave and don't come back. It is probably beneficial to the system to NOT try to kill them. They are the trained residents. Kill that one and a new one will take it's place and it has to be trained also. I'd rather have the one who has already given up.

I currently have 106 chickens but I’ve had well over 200 at some points. I surely haven’t seen everything but I’ve seen enough to know a few things.
I’ve caught hundreds of raccoons, foxes, mink, etc..

You really ought to share your methods and techniques by starting a thread or writing an article. Just saying you have doesn't help others who might benefit from your knowledge.

Is your yard bordered by woods?

I have an acre of woods myself, which connects to 500 acres that is half woods, and that connects up to National Forest lands of 1000's of acres. We have all of the common predators and they are in abundance. Same with deer, yet I never see any of them, at least during the day......and I have a full view of the yard. What goes on when the sun goes down is another matter, but that matters not to me or the birds. They are safe in their house. To reiterate, mine is a two part system. A predator proof house that protects the birds from all comers at night, and a nasty hot electric fence that protects them by day. The two combined is makes it work.

There’s just too many variables for your approach to work for very many people.
Your little patio fence might work where my birds would just hop over it.

Would hop over it (implies speculation) or yours actually do? I would have thought so too, but I tried it and discovered they don't. Others experience may vary, I'm just sharing mine. My birds, once trained to such a fence, do not hop over it.

The best fencing option imo would be some regular fencing with additional electric wires on extended insulators off the posts especially one at the very top.

Again, have you tried such a fence, or this is your speculation on what ought to work, in your opinion? In my actual experience with physical chain link fence and a woven wire livestock fence, running electric wires along the top of a physical fence would do no good whatsoever. They never go over it. They go under or through it. It might stop some of the larger dogs that tend to climb over fences, but not a coon, skunk, possum, fox, coyote, etc. Those all go under or through physical fences. They do so routinely. Most can get past them so easily they don't even slow down.

A very good analogy is with livestock like horses. I was boarding some horses a while back and with a physical fence, they paid it no mind. If there was grass on the the other side they wanted, they would reach for it, and would ride the fence down in the process. The best way to stop them from doing that was to run a hot wire along the top. But at the same time, I was able to keep these same horses inside a pasture area with nothing more than one single strand of white poly tape electric fence, set about 30" off the ground. They would graze up to it, but never over it. At best, they would snip some grass under it, but only by cocking their head so they could keep track of the wire and how close they were to it. Not once did they ever get out of it. The difference between the physical fence and the electric one was no comparison. The electric being so flimsy it was hardly nothing, but in practice, was far more effective at keeping them in.

So what folks have to get their mind around with E fences is how animals respect them due to the physical pain they mete out. A fence like mine, cranked up to 13,000 volts, gets their attention like nothing else does and they quickly learn to respect it......read avoid it.


Everyone has their own point of view on what works. I think experience is the best teacher. I’ve learned that a dead fox can’t kill chickens. There’s no disputing that.

A dead one can't, but a live predator can. As I recall, your strategy is to free range your birds, kill any predators that come around and accept that some will get by you and some birds will be lost until you can catch and kill the predator responsible. If that is a fair assessment of your plan and you are comfortable with it, then I'm all for it too.

If a predator did get past my wires, and was in the yard killing birds, I'd do the same. I'd kill him. But to date, that hasn't happened. I've never had a predator in the yard, I've never had to kill a predator and have never lost a bird to one. Maybe that will change later today, but to date, that's the score. Which is why I continue to advocate for what has proven to me to be an effective method of keeping my birds alive. I'm not sure what the objection is to no dead predators and no lost birds. That complaint always baffles me.

So as for me, I'm sticking with what works for me. My advice is for others to do what is right for them. Consider the alternatives and act as they see fit and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[roosterhavoc]

So you remain a skeptic? Good.....I always enjoy taking on skeptics.

So I don't have enough experience to make these claims? How about this guy....who is a sometimes BYC poster and the source of my ideas on electric fences:

http://www.plamondon.com/wp/

When I first read his stuff, I had my doubts too, but then I tried it, and to my surprise, it works just as he said it would. But because I have such a small area to cover in relation to Bob, I went two steps further and use 4 wires around the perimeter. But once trained to a hot wire, even 1 wire will work on my birds.

But as to your questions.......



A dead one can't, but a live predator can. As I recall, your strategy is to free range your birds, kill any predators that come around and accept that some will get by you and some birds will be lost until you can catch and kill the predator responsible. If that is a fair assessment of your plan and you are comfortable with it, then I'm all for it too.

If a predator did get past my wires, and was in the yard killing birds, I'd do the same. I'd kill him. But to date, that hasn't happened. I've never had a predator in the yard, I've never had to kill a predator and have never lost a bird to one. Maybe that will change later today, but to date, that's the score. Which is why I continue to advocate for what has proven to me to be an effective method of keeping my birds alive. I'm not sure what the objection is to no dead predators and no lost birds. That complaint always baffles me.

So as for me, I'm sticking with what works for me. My advice is for others to do what is right for them. Consider the alternatives and act as they see fit and let the chips fall where they may.

Thanks you made my point. A fox got in your fence. If that happened during the day when the birds were out you would have dead birds.
You obviously don’t have a lot of predators except dogs with neighbors so close.
Do what works for you until it doesn’t anymore.
It was a game hen that crawled under the hot wire. I watched her do it yesterday. That’s training the other way. The difference between easter eggers and game hens.

 

[roosterhavoc]

In one breath you say you’ve never had a predator get inside your fence then in the next you say you’ve found tracks in the snow at night? Then you go on to say that it’s common for them to make a high speed escape? How do you know what’s common if you have only had one fox get inside the e fence.
I have two electric fences. One is 7 wires of 14 gauge wire surrounding 46 pens. The other is yard garden and kennel woven wire with wooden and T posts with 3 hot wires. One wire at the bottom, one in the middle and one at the very top on extended insulators. This fence is surrounding another 5 pens, 3 coops and a big run.

 

[roosterhavoc]

Keeping in horses has very little to do with chickens unless you were boarding unicorns.

 

[roosterhavoc]

You’re saying with all the videos you’ve watched and all the links you’ve attached as your basis for your knowledge you have never once seen a fox climb a fence?
You have got to be kidding me!
I’ve seen them climb fences numerous times. Check out YouTube you’ll see plenty.

 

[centrarchid]

With some chickens, the hot-wire has little or now containment value even when strands properly spaced. My games quickly learn to fly over it and will fly over a 6' fence without touching it to get to other side. It is a mentality issue more than physical ability.