English Shepherd as Poultry Guardian

[parvani]

Thanks for offer, but we are pulling through.

I am slow to respond as much busier now. My kids are home with me and have been for about 7 weeks. My mother came out and helped with transition for about a month. Kids are doing quite well academically now, in part because fewer distractions. I also invest 2 to 3 hours in their academics every evening after school. They are adapting faster than I am. At this point it pays to grab sleep every chance it comes up. Sleep conflicts with posting on this site.

Thanks for taking the time to post this. I'm glad to hear your kids are back together with you.

Thanks too for posting on my "Dogs that eat weasels" thread. I went back to it and found your post, realized that you've been lurking a bit here even when you don't have time to post.

Try to check in here once in a while if you can. We may all be just jerks and strangers on the internet, but we still care and worry about you and your family, and consider ourselves friends even though we've never met.

 

[centrarchid]

I am still trying to decipher some barks. Three barks in rapid succession (bark bark bark -- bark bark bark -- bark bark bark -- and so on) mean threat is a canid (dog, coyote or fox). Sustained multiple barks (bark bark bark bark bark bark and so on) mean either vehicle driving fast or strange person approaching. Bark that does not make sense as of yet as a single bark followed by two barks with the pattern repeating (bark--bark bark--bark--bark bark-- and so on). Honey did a good example of it where stimulus was something should could smell, but not see. The dogs know what they mean. There is also meaning in the barks themselves.

 

[fisherlady]

The birds aren't roaming much at all with the snow levels have this season, but Dillon is keeping busy. Here he is showing off his favored winter method of mole and rodent detection. He didn't get one this time but he and Mindy both have many times in the past.

 

[jp_over]

Centrarchid,

Great thread and very informative. I've followed it for quite some time. As such, I'd like to ask your advice.

We currently have 2 English shepherds (male and female) who are siblings and spayed/neutered. They do a great job but we're moving to 16 acres and would like to add a 3rd or maybe 4th.

Any advice on male/female ratio? Our current 2 are siblings and even at 2 years still fight a bit. However, when there is a threat in the yard (opossum, raccoon, etc.) they work together with the female coming in from behind while the male attacks from the front.

They're great when working together but I'd like to add a bit more stability and create a larger pack for the coyotes, hogs and greater # of chicken predators at the new place. I have no expectation for the dogs to actively fight and kill such large nuisance animals as hogs and coyotes but rather to be a deterrent.

Any thoughts on growing the pack? I was thinking perhaps another male and then at six months adding a female from another lineage to allow for a future litter. We don't plan on ever getting into selling/commercial breeding but would like to have a single litter for the kids to experience. Prior to this we'll coordinate with friends and family for the extra pups.

Thanks for any advice,

Joe

 

[centrarchid]

Centrarchid,

Great thread and very informative. I've followed it for quite some time. As such, I'd like to ask your advice.

We currently have 2 English shepherds (male and female) who are siblings and spayed/neutered. They do a great job but we're moving to 16 acres and would like to add a 3rd or maybe 4th.

Any advice on male/female ratio? Our current 2 are siblings and even at 2 years still fight a bit. However, when there is a threat in the yard (opossum, raccoon, etc.) they work together with the female coming in from behind while the male attacks from the front.

They're great when working together but I'd like to add a bit more stability and create a larger pack for the coyotes, hogs and greater # of chicken predators at the new place. I have no expectation for the dogs to actively fight and kill such large nuisance animals as hogs and coyotes but rather to be a deterrent.

Any thoughts on growing the pack? I was thinking perhaps another male and then at six months adding a female from another lineage to allow for a future litter. We don't plan on ever getting into selling/commercial breeding but would like to have a single litter for the kids to experience. Prior to this we'll coordinate with friends and family for the extra pups.

Thanks for any advice,

Joe

Joe,

You sound too much like me. Simmer down!!! LOL

My dogs fight a bit with adult female doing the most aggression, although the male is dominant.

I'd space out acquisitions a little more with last two, like to about 18 months.

When the dogs are a spayed / neutered, I think the coyotes no longer take into consideration the dogs gender and may be more inclined to push issues with dogs. Your big guns for repelling by scent will be the intact dogs.

Four, and even three dogs will provide a very different dynamic compared to two and one. Then you will see even more specialization in what everyone does. My mature male and female take foes more head on while pups make a wide sweep to get behind foe. You will likely find the dogs stop bluffing and go straight into an attack against anything that does not move out quickly.

If you manage their weight well, then you are likely to see English Shepherds can be very fast dogs. They blow the doors off hounds and German Pointers when it comes to speed. From now on after tackling two pups at once, I will always make use of a dog pen for most time until pups pushing 18 months and have the pen close to core area birds are kept and where dog needs to sleep. The pups treat our barn as their core while the adults treat house as their core. That works very well when I keep two poultry yards and are almost 200 yards apart.

At some point I would like to get an unrelated intact male to replace Ben as he slows down. This season, since he will be outside all the time, I hope his undercoat will shed more completely so he is not hot all the time. His daughters shed beautifully.

 

[jp_over]

Centrarchid,

Haha - for sure! Thanks for all the detailed feedback and experienced advice.

I like that the pack dynamic will change with another dog. Our male is dominant but indeed the female often initiates fights over space or attention. Nothing serious but it's definitely a nuisance. On our new place I'm going to increase their daily exercise which should decrease friction even more.

Since our dogs are a little over 2 years, I started looking around for a wait list and actually got very lucky. We picked up "Coco" a couple of days ago and have started his integration and training. I plan to keep him intact and if he turns out as good as my current male we'll likely use him for a future litter.

I think you're spot on about spacing them out 18 months. 2 pups at once really adds a good bit of extra work in training.

That's crazy that they're so fast. I didn't realize that. We'll definitely have more room to let them "open up" at the new place.

Here's our newest flock and herd guardian "in training" with our female giving him a nose.

 

[Stephine]

I second the comment on their speed. We call ours “black lightning”.

 

[Meadowl]

Thank you Centrarchild for all your work in putting these posts out. Very informative and helpful. We have put down a deposit on an ES for our hobby farm. We previously had a GSD for 12 years, but her prey drive was just too difficult and we couldn't trust her to be alone with flock and herd. Again thanks.

 

[centrarchid]

Pups are now about 20 months old. They are now being kept separately where one is in barn (Flo)and other at house (Pup Pup). I also alternate days they go with me to work getting them used to vehicle, doors and strangers. Both pups still showing excessive interest in chickens, but I am now working both multiple times per day. Pup Pup got to assist running off Red Fox and she get within 10 feet of fox. She collided with chicken pen preventing closer distance. Pup Pup still plays with hens when she gets chance so working hard to stop that. Chasing fox and rabbits will help a lot. Flo is coming along faster and as interested in chickens for purpose of chasing. She also pulls her weight already keeping bad guys out of barn.

 

[centrarchid]

As I pen all dogs up at night for last few days, the fox, a largish male is coming in and causing trouble. I am going to use the game with him to get the pups really into giving the fox a hard time. My son will be learning more on the trapping side as well. Bait rooster was supposed to wake me up early this morning when fox was after bait carcass. Rooster appears to have just watched fox that was only a few feet away for better part of an hour. Slacker.