ethics?

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by hardboiled70, Sep 28, 2009.

  1. rodriguezpoultry

    rodriguezpoultry Langshan Lover

    10,917
    122
    331
    Jan 4, 2009
    Claremore, OK
    Wow...I'm going to hope it's not meant the way it sounded.


    If you truly believe your bird should have placed ahead of another bird, then pay your $25 and file your complaint with the superintendent. Most people realize that judging differs from day to day. A bird may have just been looking off and another was hot that day. It could easily have changed the next day. It's part of showing live animals instead of pictures, paintings, etc.

    I clerked at one of my first shows and was amazed at what I learned. That clerking position was one of the things that made me want to get into the hobby.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2009
  2. Sonoran Silkies

    Sonoran Silkies Flock Mistress

    20,149
    389
    411
    Jan 4, 2009
    Tempe, Arizona
    From what I have seen and heard, I think there are more people who "buy their way to a win" by purchasing an outstanding bird for show season, rather than choosing to raise their own, NOT by trying to buy a judge.

    I have no problem with people purchasing great quality birds for breeding, and if they have had the bird long enough to go through conditioning it, I think showing it is fine. Or purchasing and raising youngsters, then showing them is fine. But I will occasionally hear or read where someone wants to purchase the best birds available, ready to show, and then plans to sell at the end of the season. In my mind that is unethical--it is plagarism--it is taking credit for something that you had little or no involvement in creating.
     
  3. Pathfinders

    Pathfinders Crowing

    2,264
    257
    288
    Jan 25, 2008
    Northern KY
    Quote:I agree. Although sometimes you do get caught by your purchase unawares. Case in point: in '06 we bought a lovely trio of Orps from Doug Akers (who has the most gorgeous Orps!) and since we picked them up while at the Crossroads show (which was a 4 day show), we went ahead and entered them under my daughter's name (they were birds for her.) I thought it would be good to have them in cages during the four days, as we lived too far away to drive home with them, and didn't want them to be in crates the whole time.

    We were embarrassed to discover one of the pullets had won Jr. CH English. My daughter was too young at the time to take the prize away from her (usually it was her older sister who won at shows, this was her first real win), but I did make a point of thanking Doug very prominently in our Poultry Press ad from that show, to let people know the birds were not of our own breeding.

    Generally, I don't show birds I haven't bred (there was one other time I did so, but that's another story), I agree it's not really on the up and up. I know a several people who are what I call "Master Buyers" (as opposed to Master Breeders), but everyone who shows regularly knows they don't breed their own birds, and they are not taken seriously (despite what they may think.) Being rich is all very well and good, but it doesn't automatically make you talented, and to breed consistently award winning birds takes talent and hard work, not just a big whack of cash.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Chris09

    Chris09 Circle (M) Ranch

    10,999
    519
    328
    Jun 1, 2009
    Ohio
    Sonoran Silkies: From what I have seen and heard, I think there are more people who "buy their way to a win" by purchasing an outstanding bird for show season, rather than choosing to raise their own, NOT by trying to buy a judge.

    I agree. I think more people are going to try to buy their way to a win by purchasing good birds than there are people trying to buy a judge.

    Chris​
     
  5. rodriguezpoultry

    rodriguezpoultry Langshan Lover

    10,917
    122
    331
    Jan 4, 2009
    Claremore, OK
    Here's my question, at what point does the win go to buyer. I mean, the purchaser did choose their own birds from the flock.
     
  6. halo

    halo Got The Blues

    6,069
    51
    311
    Nov 22, 2007
    Florida
    My Coop
    Unless the class is for Poultry Hatched and Raised by the Showman, I dont see any problem in purchasing birds and taking them to a show, anymore than people shouldnt purchase horses or dogs and show them.

    No, I don't show birds or have any interest to, just an observation.
     
  7. halo

    halo Got The Blues

    6,069
    51
    311
    Nov 22, 2007
    Florida
    My Coop
    Quote:It was the same judge, but was it the same birds at all the shows?
     
  8. thecochincoop

    thecochincoop Songster

    I have noticed this at some smaller shows. I showed horses and show cars and the same goes there too. It doesn't matter what it is there are always some crooked ones. There have been shows where they have placed my worst bird above my better ones [​IMG] I have learned to not pay so much attention to the judges anymore, but to really learn the breed standard and talk to other exhibitors and get a picture of the perfect bird in my head and breed for that. It is not easy and will take a lot of time, but if you ever get a really nice bird it will be well worth it no matter what the judges say. I am on my way there, but not achived it yet.
     
  9. Chris09

    Chris09 Circle (M) Ranch

    10,999
    519
    328
    Jun 1, 2009
    Ohio
    When I say
    "buy their way to a win" by purchasing an outstanding bird for show season,

    I mean there going out a week before a show and purchasing there birds..
    If you have that bird for say 3-4 months I don't see a reason not to show that bird.



    Chris​
     
  10. Sonoran Silkies

    Sonoran Silkies Flock Mistress

    20,149
    389
    411
    Jan 4, 2009
    Tempe, Arizona
    A couple of years ago at our State Fair I had two similar partridge pullets entered. I honestly could not pick between them, and knew that the judge knows silkies very well. They placed 1 & 2 (of 3), which wasn't surprising to me,but I did want to know how he chose. He said they were very close, and it was simply by who was posing better when he looked at them, that if he was looking at them while we had the conversation (I think it was the next day, but it could have been in hte afternoon after he judged all morning) he might have a different opinion--note these two were very similar, each was better in one area and slightly worse in another.

    A few years earlier I was at a Silkie National that was also a double show. In the first show (the National) my black pullet placed 3rd. In the 2nd she placed 1st, and the one who had placed #1 in the first show placed #2. Different judges, only two or three hours between judgings.

    ---

    In 3-4 months, one has had a substantial amount of time to work on a birds conditioning (either positively or negatively), and if young, a bird has matured significantly. I really don't have an issue with showing a bird under those circumstances, although credit should be given to whomever for the breeding.

    I specifically remember a post several years ago on a different list from someone wanting to purchase high quality birds for showing at the county fair, and selling right afterwards; absolutely no plans for keeping the birds--just wanted to purchase a few likely winners. I found the whole idea insulting.

    edited for typos
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2009

BackYard Chickens is proudly sponsored by: