ethics?

NYREDS

Crowing
Jan 14, 2008
5,644
419
303
Quote:I know this happens but I never really gave it much thought-still not sure quite how I feel about it.
Here's an interesting event from a recent show I judged though: I don't usually get any complaints. Not because I don't make mistakes, I'm sure I do. I am careful though & am always willing to talk to exhibitors about my placement decisions [after the class is done].
At this show an "exhibitors" Grandfather openly complained about how I had placed the Modern Game Bantams feeling thay his Grandson's bird should have won the class. He didn't complain to me but to many other people. Reportedly he felt I didn't know anything about Moderns because the bird I made class champion was a poor exaample of the breed.
Here's the punchline: after the bird he bought that terrible bird for his Grandson & reportedly paid quite a bit for it.
The Grandson is 11 years old, his birds were entered in the open show, Grandpa preped & caged the birds & I never saw the Grandson anywhere near them.
According to people who know Grandpa he complains about every judge his Grandson shows under because the Grandson seldom wins. Probably because Grandpa keeps trying to "buy a win" w/o knowing much himself.
Fortunately, IMO, most people who show are reasonable people who show because they enjoy the birds, the people & the competition with competition being the least important.
 

DUccleDude

Songster
Apr 13, 2008
267
0
139
Cameron Mills, NY
Quote:I had purchased a trio of black australorps from a good breeder and gave them to my 10 year old son. He decided to show them at 2 shows last year(not knowing much about show birds) the first show he won reserve english and the 2nd show won reserve grand champion. So that is unethical? We knew little about showing or the quality of birds we purchased. Is that wrong? could anyone can tell me.
 
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frizzlemom

In the Brooder
Oct 22, 2008
48
1
22
Nebraska
I don't show chickens, but we do show horses and its the same thing. But, a friend involved in showing horses for many years told me, "its one person's opinion, on once certain day". When we show Mini's there are usually more than one judge, sometimes 4, and rarely, if ever, are the results the same under all the judges. In one class we got Grand Champion, but didn't even place under the other 3 judges. So, go figure!
 

Pathfinders

Crowing
Jan 25, 2008
2,264
259
288
Northern KY
This thread is veering into the old question of "when is the child the actual exhibitor, and when is the child just the vehicle for the adult to show birds in the Junior show?"

My kids have ALWAYS done pretty much everything except cull birds that need culling. Since my younger daughter was six and entered her first show, she did the chores, washed the birds, and IMO, she earned every win she has ever gotten (she's 15 now.)

Both my kids do all the chores, all year long (except during the day when they're at school, then I do things that must be done during that time.) They feed, water, clean coops, they treat for parasites, they do all the heavy lifting and dirty work. So for me, I am just fine with them taking some of "our" good birds (they pick they ones they want to show) and showing them under their names, they've earned it. (They've finally learned to show together and stop competing with each other, after nine years!) And when they won Jr. GCH Bantam at Lucasville last fall with a Dutch pullet, I was proud of them, because they had worked very hard to get there.

But I do have to giggle when I see a picture in PP of a three year old who has won Junior GCH at some show with a large fowl bird. I mean, come on. Who did the chores? Who washed the bird? Not the three year old. I find that just plain silly. But people do it. ((shrug))

And to answer your question DUccleDude, in my opinion, if your son cares for the birds you bought him, does chores every day, and helped you prep the birds for fair, then yes, it's fine that he won! And congratulations to him for the win.


But Master Buyers who spend hundreds of dollars on birds just to win a show are missing the whole point of showing, as the good judge says, "most people who show are reasonable people who show because they enjoy the birds, the people & the competition with competition being the least important."
 

DUccleDude

Songster
Apr 13, 2008
267
0
139
Cameron Mills, NY
Yes he cares for the birds and the chores daily although he has a hard time triming the beak, so I do that for him. He won first place in showmanship his first time. He is very involved in all parts of showing. The questions keep coming and coming. lol Thank you for responding Pathfinder.
 

blackred

Songster
Oct 15, 2007
613
16
161
Blue Texas
I got a show catalog from Georgia the other day that had a rule that said "Adults may not coop in or groom a juniors bird, if the junior needs help a member of the club will help." Pretty simple rule that may cover the issue.

As far as someone buying birds to show. While I don't have much respect for the person doing so, it doesn't really bother me that much. I figure I still have to beat the bird no matter who owns it.

Bob
 

Pathfinders

Crowing
Jan 25, 2008
2,264
259
288
Northern KY
Quote:Trimming beaks and toes is delicate work, even adults hit the quick at times, so your approach seems very reasonable. Sounds like both you and he are doing a great job.
Best of luck to you both at future shows!
 

NYREDS

Crowing
Jan 14, 2008
5,644
419
303
I had purchased a trio of black australorps from a good breeder and gave them to my 10 year old son. He decided to show them at 2 shows last year(not knowing much about show birds) the first show he won reserve english and the 2nd show won reserve grand champion. So that is unethical? We knew little about showing or the quality of birds we purchased. Is that wrong? could anyone can tell me

I can't tell you if it's wrong or not. People have to make their own moral judgements.
I can give you my opinion [always available]. I don't think what you describe is unethical at all. You have to start somewhere & you got lucky. You bought some birds from someone who didn't take advantage of your ignorance. You might just as easily bought birds that were disqualified.
What you describe is different from someone who buys top notch birds so they can show & win but never actually breeds any birds. I also would not label that wrong or unethical, just a different approach to showing than the one I chose.
 
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DUccleDude

Songster
Apr 13, 2008
267
0
139
Cameron Mills, NY
I got the birds from Mr. Whitney. He is the one who got me into showing. He has been more than generous and very helpful with everything. The part that makes me feel uneasy is he was showing at the same show where my son won. I had told him how I was feeling about the whole thing and he said "dont worry about it. I am just glad he won". Mr. Whitney is a hell of a guy.
 

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