Farm dog breeds

[Stiletto]

I don't know what part of the world you're in or how available they are there, but a Spanish Water Dog fits the bill as a versatile all-round farm dog. They are natural herders, as well as guard dogs and used for hunting (as retrievers). As the name implies, they are also good in water.

My neighbour has three who hang out with his free-ranging chickens during the day. They are used to both guard and herd animals (chickens, sheep, goats, etc.) as well as the homestead. I've often seen them trotting alongside a horse and rider.

Their hair is similar to a poodle, so non-shedding and good for those with allergies.

They are intelligent and supremely trainable dogs, high energy, so require plenty of activity (farm living is ideal) and bond very closely to their person.

Coat upkeep is very rustic, basically shearing once (or twice) a year, like sheep.

...

Collies are quite soft / sensitive dogs, especially nowadays that the breed is mostly a pet or show dog. I wouldn't expect one to:

hold his own against predators if he needs to.

Unless you can get one from working lines, and/or a pup from farm dog parents who actually do the job you're expecting your pup to do, I would look at another breed.

P.S. I'm not sure of it's been mentioned already, but Collies come in both "rough" (long haired, like Lassie) and "smooth" (short haired) varieties. Border Collies are a different breed.

 

[pkarkos]

That's pretty much a roll of the dice.An airedale mix, could conceivably have more prey drive, or less than a purebred. My brother and I had littermate lab mixes at one time. His looked like a lab, mine had a coat more like a flatboat retriever. My dog LOVED to swim and would get into any body of water, even lay down in puddles. His HATED water and wouldn't even walk through a puddle. Many other personality differences as well. Even in purebreds, littermates will differ as to abilities and drive. There are border collies that don't herd, terriers that won't hunt, hounds that don't trail, etc. It's all generalization, and breeding does play a role. (lots of traits lost by careless backyard breeding, puppy mills, etc) Training is a huge factor also. Most any dog will chase things, and can do harm, even if they just want to play. Your best bet may be to look for a rancher that breeds dogs for working, and talk to them about the traits you are looking for in a dog. Then, enclose your livestock securely, until what ever dog you get has been trained and proven itself to be reliable around them.

I was wondering if finding a dog, no matter the breed, from a working line would be best, but they seem hard to find. Do you have any advice on finding such a breeder?
I'm definitely willing to travel by car to get a dog, but I not sure if I would be willing to fly because I would never want to put a dog in the baggage area on a plane. My dad once had chocolates in a bag he check and they melted so I can only imagine how hot it gets in there. But maybe a puppy would fit under a seat? It's just that I am in New England so there aren't that many big ranches here.

 

[pkarkos]

I don't know what part of the world you're in or how available they are there, but a Spanish Water Dog fits the bill as a versatile all-round farm dog. They are natural herders, as well as guard dogs and used for hunting (as retrievers). As the name implies, they are also good in water.

My neighbour has three who hang out with his free-ranging chickens during the day. They are used to both guard and herd animals (chickens, sheep, goats, etc.) as well as the homestead. I've often seen them trotting alongside a horse and rider.

Their hair is similar to a poodle, so non-shedding and good for those with allergies.

They are intelligent and supremely trainable dogs, high energy, so require plenty of activity (farm living is ideal) and bond very closely to their person.

Coat upkeep is very rustic, basically shearing once (or twice) a year, like sheep.

I did find a few breeders near me, but if they are pricey and as demanded as Portuguese water dogs, it might be hard for me to get a puppy. But otherwise they seem perfect!

Collies are quite soft / sensitive dogs, especially nowadays that the breed is mostly a pet or show dog. I wouldn't expect one to:



Unless you can get one from working lines, and/or a pup from farm dog parents who actually do the job you're expecting your pup to do, I would look at another breed.

P.S. I'm not sure of it's been mentioned already, but Collies come in both "rough" (long haired, like Lassie) and "smooth" (short haired) varieties. Border Collies are a different breed.

Do you know how I might find a working breeder? I think no matter the breed that would be better I am in New England and there aren't many big working farms here like there are in the west, so it might be harder to find one, but I would be willing to drive. I don't really like the idea of flying with a dog unless they are small enough to fit under the seat.

 

[Stiletto]

I did find a few breeders near me, but if they are pricey and as demanded as Portuguese water dogs, it might be hard for me to get a puppy. But otherwise they seem perfect!

Yes, they are awesome dogs! Spanish Water Dogs are different (though similar!) to Portuguese Water Dogs. Spanish Water Dogs have more of the guarding instinct, IIRC. Portuguese Water Dogs became popular because your previous President had one, so perhaps Spanish Water Dogs may not be as pricey because they are not as "fashionable".

Having said that, the price of a pedigree puppy from reputable breeders is going to be greater than what you'd pay from a puppy mill or irresponsible breeders. (I can go into this more if you're interested.)

Do you know how I might find a working breeder?

A few suggestions:

- Contact the breeders near you. Write them a polite preliminary e-mail explaining that you are in the first phase of researching your next farm dog. Explain what you are looking for in a dog; that you want a working dog, not a show one. (The fact that you don't want a show quality dog can work in your favour regarding availability and price.) Include some info about yourself, your dog experience and lifestyle. Explain the allergy issues. Ask if it is possible to talk with them, to see if their dogs are suitable, with a view to later visiting them (with family members also to check the allergic response).

A responsible breeder will want to vet you and be happy to talk to prospective serious puppy buyers. They are probably busy, so be patient! Also, many serious breeders are not very techie, so bear that in mind too.

- A first step is usually to contact the National and/or regional Breed Club. Take a look at this page: Locating a Breeder from the Spanish Water Dog Club of America

- Responsible breeders know each other and network, so one can put you in contact with another.

Some extra reading from the Spanish Water Dog of America: Before You Get a Spanish Water Dog

It is not too early to start contacting breeders, as responsible ones will appreciate your doing your homework well in advance. Also, this breed is rare in your part of the world and will probably have a waiting list.

I think no matter the breed that would be better I am in New England and there aren't many big working farms here like there are in the west, so it might be harder to find one, but I would be willing to drive. I don't really like the idea of flying with a dog unless they are small enough to fit under the seat.

You'd need to contact the relevant airline(s) to find out what the (weight) limitations are for carrying a puppy with you in the cabin. This is not a large breed, so I reckon you should be able to manage it.

One final thing to note; this is a breed where you may not have a clear distinction between working and show lines. It is such a recent export from Spain, where the majority of them are working dogs, that it shouldn't matter as much as with other breeds that have been popular and bred as pets for decades.

(Let me know if there's anything that I've not been clear enough about!)

 

[pkarkos]

Yes, they are awesome dogs! Spanish Water Dogs are different (though similar!) to Portuguese Water Dogs. Spanish Water Dogs have more of the guarding instinct, IIRC. Portuguese Water Dogs became popular because your previous President had one, so perhaps Spanish Water Dogs may not be as pricey because they are not as "fashionable".

Having said that, the price of a pedigree puppy from reputable breeders is going to be greater than what you'd pay from a puppy mill or irresponsible breeders. (I can go into this more if you're interested.)



A few suggestions:

- Contact the breeders near you. Write them a polite preliminary e-mail explaining that you are in the first phase of researching your next farm dog. Explain what you are looking for in a dog; that you want a working dog, not a show one. (The fact that you don't want a show quality dog can work in your favour regarding availability and price.) Include some info about yourself, your dog experience and lifestyle. Explain the allergy issues. Ask if it is possible to talk with them, to see if their dogs are suitable, with a view to later visiting them (with family members also to check the allergic response).

A responsible breeder will want to vet you and be happy to talk to prospective serious puppy buyers. They are probably busy, so be patient! Also, many serious breeders are not very techie, so bear that in mind too.

- A first step is usually to contact the National and/or regional Breed Club. Take a look at this page: Locating a Breeder from the Spanish Water Dog Club of America

- Responsible breeders know each other and network, so one can put you in contact with another.

Some extra reading from the Spanish Water Dog of America: Before You Get a Spanish Water Dog

It is not too early to start contacting breeders, as responsible ones will appreciate your doing your homework well in advance. Also, this breed is rare in your part of the world and will probably have a waiting list.



You'd need to contact the relevant airline(s) to find out what the (weight) limitations are for carrying a puppy with you in the cabin. This is not a large breed, so I reckon you should be able to manage it.

One final thing to note; this is a breed where you may not have a clear distinction between working and show lines. It is such a recent export from Spain, where the majority of them are working dogs, that it shouldn't matter as much as with other breeds that have been popular and bred as pets for decades.

(Let me know if there's anything that I've not been clear enough about!)

Thank you very much! This is all great info!
Of course, I would expect to pay more for a well-bred dog and I am happy, too. But around here Portuguese water dog puppies run anywhere from $3,000 to $4,500 and up because they are so desirable, well-known and relatively rare. While this is not much more than a breeder I found that sells companion collies for $2,500, they still can run into a lot of money.
Buying from puppy mills is pretty easy to avoid, but I do wonder, how do you avoid an irresponsible breeder? I know some breeders are certified (I think that is the term they use?) by the AKC, but I imagine some breeders of working lines probably don't show their dogs in the AKC.

Thank you so much for your help!

 

[Stiletto]

Thank you very much! This is all great info!
Of course, I would expect to pay more for a well-bred dog and I am happy, too. But around here Portuguese water dog puppies run anywhere from $3,000 to $4,500 and up because they are so desirable, well-known and relatively rare. While this is not much more than a breeder I found that sells companion collies for $2,500, they still can run into a lot of money.
Buying from puppy mills is pretty easy to avoid, but I do wonder, how do you avoid an irresponsible breeder? I know some breeders are certified (I think that is the term they use?) by the AKC, but I imagine some breeders of working lines probably don't show their dogs in the AKC.

Thank you so much for your help!

This Wiki offers an extremely thorough guide to: Identifying a Responsible Breeder
Personally, I don't subscribe to all the stipulations they list, which is partly because I am European and this is primarily a North American guideline, where culture, laws and customs are different to my part of the world. However, you're from the States! Notwithstanding my personal opinions, I do recommend it as one of the most complete guides you'll find for learning about responsible dog breeders.

Additionally, this page is basically a post to discuss the aforementioned Wiki entry; in my view it is worth skimming and reading through the comments to glean further insight into how the advice given on the Wiki is perceived, has been put together, praise, dissenting views, etc. (So don't read the post, just the comments - and read the Wiki instead!)

You could also try filling in the Breed Questionnaire there to see what breeds are suggested. It is mostly an urban / suburban crowd there, but you might get some ideas worth considering. Also there are people there with experience (in some cases, multiple dogs over many years; there's someone there who's had Collies for decades) of some of the breeds suggested on this thread.

FYI: I have three dogs; I bought my shepherd from a "responsible breeder". My livestock guardian dog was given to me by a mutual friend and comes from an "irresponsible breeder". I also have a mixed breed that I bought (people usually say "adopted"!) from a shelter. I also have experience buying from lesser and excellent breeders with my previous dogs, plus I've already identified the breeder for my next dog (whenever that happens!).

Last but not least, when finding a breeder, remember to pay attention to your intuition / gut instinct. The above guide doesn't mention it, but your inner guidance is truly valuable.

It's my pleasure to be able to help you out on this.

 

[NHMountainMan]

The Greater Swiss Mountain Dog and the Burmese Mountain Dog are farm dog breeds. They are the poor farmers work horse. They were developed to help move cattle, guard the farm, and pull carts.
I hope to have a GSMD at some point in the future.

I second GSMD. I've got 2 Swissy/ pyrenees mixes. They are incredible guardians, and both are also pets - are inside until I let them out. The older of the two is short haired, like the swissy, while the younger is long hair. They both love the snow - the short hair is more tolerant of hot weather. The long hair also gets much dirtier - ticks, sticks, and leaves. But they are the best dogs I've ever owned.

 

[townchicks]

Stilletto is giving you excellent advice on finding a responsible breeder. It is really up to you to ask the breeder questions. Basic one would start with health, has this breeder done any health screening? I don't know much about SWD health issues, but for most larger breeds you want OFA or Pennhip ratings on hips and elbows. ASK to see the PAPERWORK. If they breezily tell you they don't have problems in their line, or "oh the vet checked them, they're fine" but they don't have the paper to prove it, not a responsible breeder. Dogs do need to be at least two ( I think) to get a final rating, so some may have a preliminary rating if younger, but still be able to show you something. Some breeders have DNA testing done to rule out genetic issues, such as Von Willebrands, (Dobermans) Collies and English shepherds should have CERF (eye) certification, etc. Also MDR1 gene testing. A good breeder will not mind you asking about these things, if they get annoyed, or give vague answers, walk away. This kind of testing is expensive and you can expect to pay several thousand ( at least) for a well bred dog these days. I would imagine SWDs to be recent imports, as they are not common in this country, so import expenses add to the breeders costs. Working ranch breeders, how ever, will not likely do this kind of testing, their screenings are generally more Darwinian, as in if the dog has issues that cause it to not work, it doesn't get in the gene pool. Frankly, if you can't afford a really good breeder, then go to a shelter or breed rescue. your odds of having issues are just as great if you go to a careless breeder as they are just winging it by adoption. (Most of those dogs come from careless breeders after all, as a responsible breeder will take their dogs back) Do your research on your chosen breed first, so you know what to ask about, and interview prospective breeders on the phone BEFORE you look and any puppies. Their cuteness will overule your brain. Also, look into McNabs. Soft, biddable dogs with people, tough enough to take on a bull, protective of their property and "family" good rodent control. Look like shorthaired border collies but not as OCD.

 

[townchicks]

Oh, BTW, AKC registration, by itself means nothing. Even puppy mill dogs can have AKC registration. It does not mean dogs are well bred. It does not even, necessarily, mean they are truly purebred. It is common practice in puppy mills to register two different litters as one litter from the dog they do have registration papers for. The breeders send in the paperwork and nobody at the AKC checks. They just want their money.

 

[Roo5]

German Shepherd.Easy trainable and very smart.
My dog has warded off several predators and just killed a coon this morning.