Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[MrsPinkKitty]

 

[Yellow House Farm]

I think this thread has the makings for a great dialogue. Let's keep the windows of communication open.

Thank you, Bob, for explaining your system for weighing. We do something similar with a hanging scale. Toe-punching to remember the mating of origin and then wing bands are also great. What I enjoy about this is that it leads to deeper knowledge. Bob, I enjoyed reading of your index card method. We keep a journal. Each hatch is treated like a chapter with multiple pages dedicated to it that I fill as the birds grow.

Thank you, also Bob, for mentioning thos fine breeds, and (if it's possible that anyone does not know) Bob has been working to network with breeders for those looking for stock.

THere are so many breeds to mention: the French breeds (La Fleche, Houdan, Crevecoeur, Faverolles, Marans), the Benelux breeds (Hamburgs, Campines, Barnevelders, Welsummers), the English Breeds (Dorkings, Redcaps, Sussex, Orpingtons). It seems that the list is endless, and it can be so hard to choose. Still, I hope that on this thread we can do just that. We can choose. Then, we can get to the good stuff. So many of the older texts stress this essential step: choosing one breed, keeping one breed, becoming a master breeder of that breed, feeding one's family with that breed. Too many breeds on the homestead lead to too much division of effort. One is unable to hatch enough chicks in each variety to make the difference. One breed, done well, is a worthy endeavor. Cybercat, via your signature, it appears that your homestead is specializing in Partridge Rocks. Is that the case? It would be fantastic to know that a functioning farm flock of Partridge Rocks were in existence.

I remember various flocks from my childhood. The dairy down the road also had a beautiful flock of Speckled Sussex. A woman in my parents' Bible study had a rather impressive flock of Turkens that ran with another impressive flock of guineas--what a sight, I'm telling you. My neighbor, Grandma M, had NH Reds. I just met a really impressive judge, the kind you could talk to for days, Lou Cunningham, who was talking of his grandpa's farm which had only Light Brahmas.

Here on our farm it's White Dorkings. What a pain in the neck! They're great! I say pain in the neck because they're very rare and difficult to procure, but I'm sure glad we made the choice for Dorkings. I wish we could work with the La Fleche and the Houdan, too, but it would divide our efforts such that none would be strengthened. I know of two breeders who have adopted the La Fleche as their breed. I hope they are able to make a difference. The great thing about choosing a breed and variety is that it allows us to focus our efforts and deepen our knowledge. We can move beyond the superficial and start making advancements.

I do have to admit that we have a small side project with RC Anconas. My other half is fond of them, and it makes me happy that he be happy. Still, I keep it down to two breeding groups lest it make a mess of things and blur the focus.

I think we'll be able to talk a lot about meat. There is the natural progression of that follows age: broiler, fryer, roaster, fowl. Really any breed can be used for each of these by the sheer fact that each breed will be at one time at the age which each of these designations represents. Still, of course, different breeds are better suited to different stages.

I think that a lot of our breeds have been neglected for a long time. I think that meat qualities have really suffered. In all truth, I feel that when the homesteader chooses a breed, he or she must be willing to take it where it's at. It is going to need improvement, and, the rarer it is, the more improvement it's going to need. But we are up to the task! The Houdan can be salvaged--I am convinced! However, it's going to take dedication, and single-mindedness.

It would be great to get to know everyone via their breed of choice. Has anyone else narrowed down to the breed that will be the signature of their farm? I have four friends in the area who keep only Anconas. One who is really taking them seriously. I have another friend who is dedicating her time to White Chanteclers. So, what will it be?

 

[kathyinmo]

Quote:
Those are my breeds .... Delaware, New Hampshire, Barred Rocks. My intention is to breed to the SOP, and fill my freezer. I fully intend to have the best of both worlds, if at all possible.

 

[Jared77]

Kathy Ive seen pictures of your birds and they are something to be VERY proud of. They are very impressive. I believe you can breed to the SOP bird and your culls are still good birds to feed the family with. Your cull rocks I bet still have lots of size on their frame, and your at a point where you would be culling for things that we wouldn't even see on the carcass. Pattern, comb points, leg color etc. All good reasons to cull once you've got that frame and the muscle to fill it out. The problem I see is too often the frame and body isn't there yet, but people are worried about the color, or other little details that shouldn't even be looked at because the structure isn't what it needs to be. Im not even talking about wing carriage, I'm talking about the distance between the legs, proper length of the back, overall fleshed out. Things that are much more important and should be pretty uniform even in your culls because thats been worked out first.

I lurk on few of the breed threads. I try to picture what I see on the pictured birds as how they'd look on the table. Why? Because I'm still not 100% sure what breed I want to focus my efforts on. Its been ongoing and I go bounce around between a handful of breeds as to what Id want to put my efforts into. I know my needs but trying to find that 1 breed has been elusive so far. Maybe I need to breed up something, or maybe my standards are unrealistic. I don't know. But the breed that I put my efforts into needs to give me what I want also. Thats the whole reason I want chickens. Its about being a little more self sustaining. Eating healthier meat, and fresh eggs. That's why I try to picture them on the table. That's where my culls would end up and if I have to cook extra birds because the body isn't there to feed everybody then thats not very efficient. Now I'm not talking feeding 20 people on a single roaster but it needs to be reasonable.

I'm so glad for this thread. There doesn't seem to be that middle of the road, self sufficient kind of thread. Lot of whats on here is pet chickens, or show chickens. And thats great that your thing by all means go for it. Its just nice to see a thread dedicated to more of the small time person who wants to keep a sustainable flock and go from there.

Now I've got one more thread to lurk on. Between this one, a few threads in the meat forum, Bob's heritage thread, and a few breed threads I've got plenty to keep me busy.

Thank you for starting this, I think its going to be very useful.

 

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

Quote:
I've been intrigued by a number of different breeds and right now, since I am back in the city and can't really do a breeding program justice, I feel I am granted a reprieve from choosing, sort of.

I'm still dallying. Russian Orloffs are still the leader, but I am hoping to get some Houdans to keep here in my city flock to get a feel for them. They may end up being the winner when the dust settles, but I have to see if the breed is the sort that can survive our winters, or if they will need too much babying because of their crests. They probably are not the most practical choice for Alaska.

Orloffs or Chanteclers I'm sure are better choices, and aesthetically and historically I find the Orloff more to my liking. Now if only I can get this dang infatuation with the crests out of my system...(Brabanters are also on my list of breeds to "try out"!)

I'm definitely seeking a breed with somewhat "fluffy" feathers as I have found the hard-feathered breeds suffer more in the cold. Small comb and wattles, winter hardy, etc. Wyandottes would probably be a good breed for me, but they just haven't struck my fancy. I like "accessories", but feathered feet are definitely not an option, and I suspect the Houdans will also need to be kept indoors or in covered runs in the winter.

I was also keeping Delawares before my move forced flock dispersal, but I will not have another single combed breed. I stressed far too much about it, and hate to see the frost bite.

 

[Robert Blosl]

I'm so glad for this thread. There doesn't seem to be that middle of the road, self sufficient kind of thread. Lot of whats on here is pet chickens, or show chickens. And thats great that your thing by all means go for it. Its just nice to see a thread dedicated to more of the small time person who wants to keep a sustainable flock and go from there.

I have interviewed about 20 old time large fowl breeders about 20 years ago be for they died. I had one fellow named Ralph Brazelton from Kansas told me you have you done your home work well may I give you some advice?

Go Small. Go Slow. And go down the middle of the road.

These few words was the greatest advice I ever got from a master breeder.

We some times get so big we cant take care of the birds we are rasinging.

I got a phone call from a fellow who I sent Rhode Island Red large fowl 12 years ago. He told me that he has sent out for the past then years many chicks and sold many adult birds to beginners. Do you know how many people still have his birds. That we can figure out. About two.

I sent out at least 500 chicks to people of these Rhode Island Reds in 15 years. Yet only two people still have my line.

The fellow who I got my strain from E W Reese from Georgia sent out at least 2,000 chicks in his twenty years of raising large fowl reds. He only has me then the two others who I mentioned that has his birds.

The lady who he got his birds from was the famous Mrs. Donaldson of Georgia. She got her start in 1912 and I bet she sold at least 5,000 chicks in her time and she only had Mr. Reese left after she died to carry on her old line.

So after talking to my friend who has my old line that came from Mr. Reese who came from Mrs. Donaldson there are few people who can really raise chickens and keep them going.

I don't know if its they cant raise chickens and the die on them. Maybe that is why people run to the feed store or get new chickens from the hatcheries as they cant keep what they get.

Something to think about. You may have the hots to have a Heritage breed but can you keep them going? Do you have the skills to just raise chicken s?

I often wonder how many people does it take to get a breed of chickens and they will still be able to have them after 20 years.


When you ask the question why there is not enough breeders to sell you the beginners Heritage Fowls I think the reason is that not many can just raise chickens in general then keep them long enough to learn how to breed and improve them then share them with you.

I use to hear the old timers tell me you can count the number of good breeders on one hand. I think today I see what they are talking about.


There are a few out there who have the passion I will put my money on Kathy form Mo. I think she has the Right Stuff. She sure has the birds to prove it and the will to keep them going.

Its late 1:30 in the morning and its Off to Handy Paddy land. bob

 

[spartacus_63]

I have a homestead, heritage flock with a goal to raise a productive self sufficient flock. I have attained my first goal of producing enough eggs to market and pay flock expenses. I am following a traditional "Homestead" process. I have flock goals that are varied by breed. I have RIR for eggs and meat. I have four rescued BO for eggs and broodiness. I acquired some BJG this year for meat and curiosity and I am getting some Iowa Blues because I live in Iowa, this breed is not in the SOP and it is rare.

Someone said on here that they think a good way to help preserve some of the rare breeds is to increase awareness in the homestead flock arena. I am in agreement, but I also agree with Bob in that most homestead flocks will lack the discipline necessary for strict prolonged breeding. Nowhere in my goals is there a show champion, but I do believe breeding to standard will increase probability of prolonged production.

My first clutch of 3rd & 4th generation birds are due to hatch next week and these will be important members of my flock. If their production continues, increases or decreases, will let me know if I am doing it right.

I'm looking forward to sharing about homestead experiences, successes and less than successful techniques.

 

[mixedchickens]

Quote:
This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about. How many folks actually have a breed or breed to the bird in the description of that breed? Not just lbs and good color I mean "a Delaware thats actually could be considered a "broiler"?" The New Hampshire that actually has meat on its frame and not an orange colored production bird that lays brown eggs? A barred rock that makes a good table bird? And no chicken and dumplings don't count.

That alone is tough enough to find anymore. The wing carriage may not be perfect, or they may have a few too many points, or the color or pattern may be off a bit so they are a cull. Thats fine, but at least meet the description of the breed. That alone seems hard enough to find anymore. Thats more then enough for many of us who want a homestead heritage bird. I know a number of folks who'd be happy with some smut patterned Delawares if the rest of the bird was up to par as far as size and rate of maturity goes. Seems like people get so hung up on the little things like leg color or points on a comb that they dont' realize that the dual purpose bird they are working with wouldn't make a good meal due to a lack of meat on the frame. But its got good pattern! Give me a break.

Its the perception. Until you've got a proper frame with good fleshing on it in a reasonable amount of time, color, comb points, leg color is meaningless. Too often I think we look for the identifying marks and not the whole bird, especially with regards to the heritage breeds. These were breeds that served a purpose, and until we return them to that status we're just grasping at straws.

X2

You would think think it would be easier to find these birds with all of us out there wanting them.

 

[Jake Levi]

Hi all

Bob I appreciate your comments on marking your chicks, I will be growing out my chicks in pairs or trios this year, but come laying time I would prefer to have them separated so I can track their egg laying, weighing I am going to do, a lot of time so the numbers will not be a high as I would prefer, maybe next year can be more.

My two breeds are Wyandottes, the Partridge and RC RIRs, with the Wyandottes the higher numbers, next year I hope to have a couple dozen of each. Maybe add the GL Wyamdottes.

I had both of these on the farm when I was a kid, and kept the White Wyandottes as an adult, I am getting my chicks from Pauley Farms and Duane Urch. Hopefully in early May.

I feel bad going to the county fairs here in northern MI and seeing so few of the Heritage breeds, a large selection of Bantams, whats not to love , but where are the old standby home breeds?

Bob its truly sad that only two people over the years have kept your strain, I see this all the time up here, so many nice older small farms with the barns falling apart, land growing up or being sold into house lots. Its a whole process that is destroying our ag heritage, as well as our heritage breeds.

Rebecca its good to see you here from the rabbit lists, glad you have chickens too up there.

Hopefully next year I will have some data on the small numbers I have, and know who the best layers are to select pullets from and which ones have weighed out the best. I will worry about fine cosmetic traits another year. First, which of them are true heritage chickens and not just pretty ones.

I am looking forward to comments from others on how they do things, the scale has to be, and so do pen cards to track eggs.

 

[X2Farm]

A question, if I may.

How are yall housing or planning on housing these birds?

One of our biggest goals, here on our farm, is hardiness. While our original intentions were free ranging with a movable coop, we soon realized that we also need to protect our investment, and have since changed plans. We'll be building hoop house tractors, and moving them everyday. At least when the ground isn't super soggy. They won't be spoiled, no heat, plenty of ventilation, with an area where they can get out of the cold/wind/rain if they feel so inclined. We'll probably end up having at least a dozen of these houses built and on the pastures by Spring.

Is there a better way to balance out building/breeding for a good hardy homestead/farm flock while still being able to protect your investment?

What changed our plans was realizing, that at least for the next few years, was we just simply cannot afford to lose any of the stock we have/will get. I guess its a small compromise, and I'm hoping it'll still allow for a good farm hardy bird.