Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[spartacus_63]

YHF

Hi Spartacus!

What are the dimensions of your primary coop? You may find that dividing it into several breeding pens is the best use of the space, which can be done very inexpensively. If all of your birds are housed together in one flock, you will find that you can control mating or make meaningful selections. This sort of environment can be a fast track for genetic exhaustion.

My coop is 10x14. I'm not sure I followed your message. Are you saying that by having all my birds together, that I would have a hard time with planned matting? I currently use my breeding pens for to ensure matting as desired. I only use broody hens AKA Bio-Bators to brood. Once I have the desired number of eggs, I give them to one of my broodys. Upon hatch they go into a brooder coop/run. After two weeks of seclusion, they are allowed to free range with the rest of the flock. Eventually the hen introduces them to the main flock usually between six & eight weeks

It is a slow process but it works for me so far.​

 

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

Quote:
You know, I see a lot of interest right now in creating NEW breeds and varieties to meet certain niches, and I think that conversation has as much relevance on a homestead poultry thread as any, but perhaps would need it's own since this is for "heritage" breeds.

But really, I find it inspiring that there are so many people still interested in evolving the breeds, the fancy and the industry. Things are different now than they were when many of these wonderful old breeds were created. Is it naive of us to think that we have the same requirements and expectations of our birds?

I for one applaud those that are not afraid of pursuing a strain of chicken that fits their individual needs. Certainly, if no one had ever done the same we would not have these heritage breeds to preserve. The poultry fancy should not be a static thing, new and exciting has it's place just as old and revered does.

 

[buffalogal]

Quote:
I understand what you are saying, though I think whether or not one could be judged as being successful would depend on your definition of a "truly super strain". SoP showroom quality? Productivity? Hardiness? All of the above? Is it any more difficult dividing one's attention and doing a good job with two or three or four breeds of chicken than it is working with one chicken, one duck, one turkey, one goose, one rabbit? Depends. In my case, it's easier to specialize in one species, than it would be to work on becoming relatively proficient at multiple species.

Quote:
Replace "LaFleche' with RC Ancona, and you can understand why I can't help but feel a twinge when I read that someone has them but "they receive very little attention in thought or deed". I suppose a purist could make a case that rare breeds or varieties should not be owned by anyone less than 100% committed to their welfare and preservation, but that's not how I feel about it. I want Anconas (both varieties) to be popular, so much so that someone keeping a few around as an after thought wouldn't make anyone think twice. As common as rocks, would be one way to put it.

 

[junglebird]

Quote:
ALBC has a meat bird comparison chart on this page: http://albc-usa.org/EducationalResources/chickens.html I started with that to do my research. They also have a list of breeders, too.

By sustainable, do you mean broody? Good forager? High conversion rate of feed to meat?

Here are some of the dual purpose breeds I found that seem to be favored for meat over eggs include Dark or White Cornish, Silver Grey or Red Dorking, Buckeye, Java, La Fleche, Plymouth Rock, Rhode Island Red, Australorp, Sussex (not speckled), Wyandotte ... (size varies depending on where you get the birds)

The following are also recommended for meat (but are also reported to have higher egg production): Delaware, Jersey Giant, New Hampshire, Orpington, Dominique

Heat tolerant birds: Catalana, Cubalaya, others?

Hardy: I'm starting to think that hardiness is a common trait to all these heritage utility breeds, and that their hardiness has more to do with their breeding history and less to do with the breed itself.

(This isn't from experience, but from limited research.)

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Hi Junglebird! In your more eggs than meat list, I'd remove both the La Fleche and the Australorp. They are both quite good layers. I have to admit that I'm partial to the Dorking

 

[biomistake]

Junglebird your link is not going to the right place please fix it as its going to a spam site please and thanks

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Hmmm...so I was driving back from a visit with my God-son, and I was thinking about this thread. I was feeling that I wasn't quite communicating what it was that I meant. I knew I was talking about one breed and the need for the specialization, and yet I didn't want to alienate. Then I had a bit of an a-ha moment. Perhaps, I hadn't made it clear that our approach has a rather commercial bent, which changes the game plan.

The goal of our farm is to maintain a "closed flock", a flock that rarely, if ever, and then only judiciously brings in outside stock. The reasons would be three with the first leading to the following two: genetic protection, flock health, product stability.

But first I should explain. When your goal is for your own table, well then your table's law rules. If you want four different fowls--great. If you don't care about any of it and you just want a pretty sight, great. If you want one fowl and consistency, that's cool. However, when the majority of the meat you produce is destined for sale at market, things change. When a customer tries your product and they like it, they want to return and buy it again, but they want the second to be like the first. Customers want the dependability of consistent quality.
It is a very strange sensation when you put that roaster down on the table in front of your customer. There is silence; all gimmick, all fanciful notions are gone. They look at the presentation. They see what they want, or they don't. A heritage roaster is going for $5.99/lb. That customer is about to give you over twenty dollar for that roaster. Is is worth it? You have 100 pounds of chicken to turn over that day, 75 pounds of duck, some turkey, some geese, 50 dozen chicken eggs, 35 dozen duck eggs, and then other product. Customers are coming back, and they want the quality that you've delivered in the past. They have guests coming on Saturday evening, and they've chosen your Heritage roaster as the centerpiece above the elk available two stalls down, the heritage beef staeks, the goat sausage, the locally caught lobster, the leg of lamb; your roaster's it, because they've tried it, loved it, and want to share the experience. They buy it, take it home, defrost it, and what if it's not what they had expected. Problem.
It's on this level that farming can be different than homesteading. You're about to slaughter 300 roasters that you need to sell at a profit. If customers don't know what they're going to get when they visit your stall; they're quick to become gun shy. If they get a Rock one time, a Dorking the next time, and a Cornish the third time, you'll quickly become "the neat little farm but you never really know what you're going to get." We're all different, but that's not the marketing position I'd choose to hold. Consistency is key.

Here's where things get complicated. Consistency in poultry is the fruit of directed effort in breeding. The difficulty is by choosing to work with heritage poultry, one is choosing to work outside of the realm of hatchery consistency, which has been focused on the perfection of commercial crosses for decades now. These crosses keep you dependent on the hatcheries, but they deliver. They provide you with consistent quality, be it for eggs or for meat. When you order their crosses, you get what you order. With heritage fowl, it's more risky. You order Dorkings; they grow with marked variability in weight, breadth, and depth. You order White Wyandottes, many of which are deformed and unthrifty. You order Australorps that lay very well, but the egg size is only medium. You buy Columbian Wyandottes with a high percentage of crooked breast bones and small eggs. You get some Anconas that have been bred indoors for too many generations and can't keep up with the cold. You order Salmon Faverolles that turn out to be half Mahogany Faverolles. Your Speckled Sussex are flat breasted. Your Houdans are half way to being bantams....what's a farmer to do? Well, use the factory crosses, of course....or......

You decide what you're going for and what you need: levels of productivity, better for meat, better for eggs, rate of maturation, meat quality, foraging ability, historical or cultural significance. You line them all up, and then you prioritize them. You pick the breed that best meets your goals, and then you settle in to create your own consistency. You recognize ahead of time that you need to be able to close your flock, which means you must have the level of biodiversity needed to be genetically self-sufficient. You are about to put a lot of time into this investment. Over time your stock is going to be exactly where you want it, where your clientele expects it to be. The importantion of outside stock can throw your genetics for a loop and damage your business, undermining seasons of work. New stock can introduce disease, as well. On a homestead, you might see past these things, but on a farm they are moments of true anxiety.

The kind of breeding that is necessary to do this requires focus on many details and requires a depth of selection. I used to dream of doing it for several breeds, but as time slowly reveals the kind of commitment and effort that is needed to do this with even one breed, it makes two seem like a pretty steep climb and three would be daunting. Sometimes, I wonder if I could put this much effort into the Dorkings, while also maintaing a couple of hobby lines in another breed or two, we'll see.

 

[junglebird]

Thanks, bio, I fixed the link to the ALBC.

Quote:
Thanks, YFH, Australorp was in the wrong spot, but what about La Fleche (ALBC didn't say)? What's their expected lay rate? Here's what I got from ALBC and a couple of other random sites, I'd love to hear what the corrections are!

Breed, Egg production, Broodiness, Market Weight
Dark Cornish, 50-80 eggs per year, non setters, 4.5-6.5 lbs
New Hampshire, 120-150, setter, 5.5-7.5 lbs
Buckeye, 120-150, setter, 5.5-8 lbs
Cubalaya 125-175, setters, 3-4.5 lbs
Red or Silver Grey Dorking, 150, setters, 6-8 lbs
Java, 150, setters, 6.5-8 lbs
La Fleche, 150-200 (?), non setters, 5.5-7 lbs
Catalana, 150, non setters, 5-6.5 lbs
Delaware, 150-200, setters, 5.5-7.5 lbs
Jersey Giants, 175-185, 8-11 lbs
Orpington 175-200, setters, 7-8.5 lbs
Wyandotte, 180-200, 5.5-7.5 lbs
Sussex, 200, setters, 6-7.5 lbs
Plymouth Rock, 200 +, setters, 6-8 lbs
Rhode Island Red, 250 +, 5.5-7.5 lbs
Australorp, 250+, 5.5-7.5 lbs
Dominique, 230-275, 4-6 lbs

 

[kathyinmo]

Quote:
I guess the difference I see here is that you are talking about a business venture. Though, frankly, I don't really see why consistency (re one breed) would be that important in that case either. I simply want to be self sufficient and don't care about having customers. I have plenty of family to fill freezers for. In light of that, I think having more than one breed is rather exciting. I look forward to tasting the differences. I often considered ordering poultry from Frank Reese's farm. http://www.reeseturkeys.net/category.sc?categoryId=2 I know he sells Barred Rocks, Jersey Giants, New Hampshires, turkeys, ducks, geese, guinea, etc. Your order is labeled with which type of meat, of course. 4 Plymouth Rocks, New Hampshires, or Jersey Giants - 12 pounds of chicken (butchered and frozen) for $60.

 

[Lotsapaints]

I love comparing the birds I butcher and it helps so much with breeding......Did Marans and Delawares today both were nice the Dels were meatier and had less fat both were in the same finishing pen they both taste good Marans need slow low heat and have a richer broth. My Marans were all from different breeders and they have finished different too as I raise and eat my own I'll learn more. Older Dels make the best roasters past 26 weeks still tender just big with lots of room for stuffing my DH's favorite.