Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry

[DesertChic]

This is the Standard of Perfection, It not only contains the "standard" or detailed description for each breed, but the first 40-50 pages are absolutely the encyclopedia of the chicken and these pages alone are worth the price of the Standard.

This is the hardcopy version, because I prefer hard bound books, but there are inexpensive spiral bound versions sold by the APA as well. Beware of Ebay sellers and internet sellers of "fake" versions. The book can only be purchased from the APA.

I just ordered my copy. One thing is for sure...become a chicken enthusiast results in a lot of new reading material.

 

[DesertChic]

Yes, I know all about trying to find the chickens you want. It's a pain sometimes.

Found these folks if you hadn't found them already - perhaps you can ask them if they know of anyone that ships Dorkings if they don't know of anyone within driving distance of you : https://www.facebook.com/ECDBC

http://dorkingbreedersclub.webs.com/apps/forums/show/583634

Could also contact www.LivestockConservancy.org and see if they can point you in the direction of breeders. You can definitely work with hatchery birds, but I can tell you that it is easier to start with better birds when you can.

Thanks for the info!

 

[DesertChic]

The SOP is the end all be all of heritage poultry. In many ways, it is the reason the breeds we have exist.

There are fours kinds of birds:

1) The most productive poultry in the world, that have ever existed, are the products of Western industry in Europe and North America.

2) Hatchery stock: Birds that are bred to color (broadly speaking) and comb with a kind of middle of the road egg production. When they are handled, be they "Sussex", "Dorkings, "Rocks", "Reds", "Wyandottes", or what have you, they all have the same, lean frame, and possess precious little of anything approaching true breed type.

3) There are the myriad backyard projects, all of which are touted by the owner as a worthy project, most of which have very little substantial backing whatsoever.

4) Then there are standard-bred, aka heritage fowl. The vast majority of them are held by breeders who breed to the standard with concern for type, feather, and symmetry. They are rare as all get out, and most large fowl breeds are holding on by a thread. Very few--exceedingly few--ever rise to the ranks of knowledge and passion manifested by these breeders, and I've met relatively few--none, really--breeders outside of these ranks who understand traditional poultry in a broadly experienced, meaningful way.


Production in non-industrial flocks has a rather impenetrable glass ceiling. Egg production without strict records and trap-nesting is unquestionably limited. Feed conversion rates in any modern sense of the word is impossible for the backyard breeder to work on. It requires sophisticated technology, and few if any non-industrial breeders have the finances or time necessary to follow this route.

Weight, however, is a breed characteristic, and that can be chases with a fair level of success in the back yard.

The first requirements for which I breed are weight, type, feather quality and symmetry. They are the foundation of any breed. There are basic phenotypical indicators for egg-production, of referred to loosely as the Hogan method, that can be followed, and the birds that score well in this fashion will maintain an appropriate level of production egg-wise and possess much of the abdomen quality that is necessary for a dual-purpose breed.

Remember that "production" is not a fixed trait; it is a level that is attained and must be maintained with every single generation. It is very quick to spiral to the center. A flock is only as productive as this year's breeding, and every flock is a closed book. There is no such things, in real time, as a productive breed. There are only productive strains, and most folk level out a strain in the first five years of working with it because it takes that much time to learn the strain, and by the time they do, it has changed. Then they begin again.

The best hope any strain of standard-bred poultry has is to be the object of a breeder's specialization and developed for appropriate levels of healthy productivity with the frameworks of the SOP. "Heritage" large fowl are threatened on all fronts, the thought that the folks who have brought them forward to this point and have kept them from disappearing all together were wrong is misguided. If one is going to engage heritage poultry on a meaningful level, one needs to acquire stock from a breeder who has underscored with insistence weight, type, feather quality and symmetry, and then, as one begins to understand poultry breeding, which will take a long time, one will learn how to select for the best and, hopefully, most productive birds as one goes.

It is,at any rate, no small feat.

Wow! Very eloquently stated...and you've given me a lot to ponder. I know that when I'm finally ready to start focusing on improving and maintaining a single breed that it will be a multi-year commitment to focus on improvements, which is why I'm not rushing into anything. I'm so inexperienced in the field that I want a firm, basic understanding of chickens in general before venturing into such an important project. (That being said, I also want eggs and meat, so....I won't be putting it off too terribly long.)

 

[3riverschick]

LOL! If it were up to just me I'd have already ordered about 30 Dorking chicks from at least three different hatcheries, but I promised my husband that I would wait until 1) I finish building the modular style chicken run I've designed, 2) I build a second coop to accommodate all the new hatchlings so they don't live in our office ever again, and 3)...we collect our first egg from my existing flock.

Luckily for me I'm the woodworker/carpenter in the family, so I don't have wait on anyone to do the building for me. Unluckily for me I'm the woodworker/carpenter in the family, so if I don't have the time to build it just doesn't get done. I'm pretty sure I'm going to fudge the last requirement and order chicks before my first egg appears. (My Australorps are only 6 weeks old.) I've already filled shopping carts and I'm just itching to press that "checkout" button. Starting with hatchery chicks may not be ideal, but there are no breeders in my area and I'm trying to work with what I have access to. Who knows...maybe I create an "desert" breed of Dorking.

Mistake, mistake, mistake. Can't say it often enough. Save the ,money and buy the very best. Ask Yellow House Farm. He loves the Dorkings too. Buy the best and breed the best. Sell the rest on craigslist. Pay extra for started birds. That way the breeder can cull them at least once for quality. Buy a trio at least. Better to buy a quad. 2M, 2 F. Make sure they can be bred to each other. 1/2 siblings or aunt, uncles, cousins. Stay in one strain. It will take you less time to get to know it.... it will take you less time to stabilize the genes as you get to know the strain. I mean, as you get to know the strain and how it inherits, there will be some genetic variation as you interbred the strain. By only using one strain, you can keep that variability to a minimum as you learn to manipulate it for improvement and to please your artist's eye. Try not to cross strains to found your flock. Genetic variability in poultry is much harder to control than in mammals because of all the sex-linked genes and Standard requirement for color patterns.
Best,
Karen

 

[DesertChic]

Okay...you guys have convinced me. When I'm ready to begin this commitment, I'll only purchase from qualified breeders. But that brings me to my next question - how many breeders will I need to purchase from to ensure there's no inbreeding? I plan to employ spiral/clan breeding to minimize inbreeding, but as I understand it, that technique typically requires purchasing from at least three different sources. I can only start with roughly 30 chicks total, not the 100+ I would prefer, but as I've seen indicated here there are few if any breeders willing to part with that many of their chicks. Should I start with a smaller selection? If so, can I get all of them from a single breeder, or do I still need to locate three separate breeders? When I start this I'm in it for the long haul, which is why I'm taking my time and conducting as much research as possible, setting up my property accordingly, etc.

 

[TheBanditQueen]

The first requirements for which I breed are weight, type, feather quality and symmetry. They are the foundation of any breed. There are basic phenotypical indicators for egg-production, of referred to loosely as the Hogan method, that can be followed, and the birds that score well in this fashion will maintain an appropriate level of production egg-wise and possess much of the abdomen quality that is necessary for a dual-purpose breed.

Yellow House Farm, could you elaborate on the phenotypical indicators of egg production?

 

[Orpington Crazy]

Watching

 

[LindaB220]

Another fine thread.

So im now about 18 months in. Here is a brief summary of what ive done.

Started with Orpingtons, but quickly decided they are to skinny. (At least the ones i have from 2 different sources.) so added plymouth rocks and an indian game cockerel (a Cornish).

First season (last year) of breeding the Orpington's was a learning curve. And we maybe hatched only 20 chicks, ate 5, sold a couple of cocks, gave some hens away to friends and kept 7 which were bred this year to the Plymouth. Second season just finishing was more of a learning curve. The indian game being quite heavy and mature did some nasty injuries to my hens (they are all healthy we took good care of em). So spurs off before we next mate them. The Plymouth was a little similar, large and heavy, but young so no spurs yet.... Just sharp toenails causing a little damage. Saddles are being investigated. Overall we are going to end up with 60+ chicks this year depending on the final hatch next weekend.

The meat. The first few Orpington's we ate, we left em to long. They were tough. But they were also very long and skinny. Not good value those ones. We have had some Orp/plymouth and they are much better, shorter overall and much thicker legs and breast. But still a long way from a production bird. My hens i have kept from last year, plymouth hen / Orp cockerel have been crossed back to a different line plymouth cockerel. So interested to see what we get there. The hens are obviously much stockier than a normal Orp. I'll be hopefully successfully breeding the indian game in there after the summer heat... About march next year. This will make the most difference to the meat side of things.

So in general just playing around with those 3 breeds and seeing what results. I have also recently bought 2 young light sussex hens. So they will slot in somewhere too at some point. This is being done on 1/4 acre with most of the backyard dedicated to the chooks. They all have access to grass which they seem to mow quite well. I have 6 coops of varying sizes, and my rooster boxes built into the rear of the feed shed are almost done..... Oh the sleep shall reign.

I'll be reading through this lot for sure

And just because photos are cool, this is Stripey, the plymouth i hatched from a breeder last year, who has sired the 60 we have this year. But turns out to not be proper dark barred plymouth. But still producing some nice green and purple luminescent chooks, as well as the more traditional barred looking ones

Very good job!!! I hatched two eggs and the chicks turned out to look like this. I ordered white rocks and told him about it. He said they were barred rocks. But they are still black. Are they mutts?

 

[LindaB220]

Hello, so happy to have found this thread...would like to give a little information if you like..we milk a cow and make our own PRO-Biotic...so healthy and easy..we are an older couple who have benifited from this...all that is needed is "milk grains" (I was fortunate to have a friend who shared hers with me) I prefer the second fermenting method..makes wonderful healthy shakes by adding fruit...if interested donna @ culturedfoodlife.com...she is so helpful.....Now: we make our own butter and the "buttermilk" is what is left after butter forms (I know you know that sorry) used in baking - delicious. from butter we make ghee or clarified butter, ghee is pushed a little longer and has a nutty taste...after the "liquid gold" is ready I put in to 1/2 pt. jars, and water bath.... seals ok without water bath but I like to be "sure" I understand a lady has eaten hers after 4-5 years on shelf...have not been making it that long but oldest on shelf is 3/2012...I understand the "fat" is the healthyest to eat...check it out if interested.. I am going on year 4 for raising chickens...(I Think) I have decided on flock...mine are only hatchery girls but are wonderful ...have 20 New Hampshire Reds (chicks)(good foragers and weather hearty, large eggs, good meat production) Plymouth Barred Rocks- good dual purpose, lay well --Black Astralorpes? 20 Isa Browns (from Towneline) for eggs...will be the last year I "order" chicks...weather premitting I will be sending quite a few to freezer camp... I have probably said too much but so enjoyed your conversations....am 75 - husband 82 and we are still going strong at being self sufficient.

Way to go on your homesteading. Kudos.. I do love me some kefir. Good luck. Stay healthy.

 

[LindaB220]

The Silver Grey Dorking is actually the one I'm favoring right now for when I begin raising heritage birds. Everything I've researched has indicated that not only will these provide some exceptionally flavorful meat, but may also provide a nice supply of eggs, some foraging tendencies, and a favorable disposition. I have also looked at Buckeyes, Delawares, Wyandottes, Dominiques and the Speckled Sussex, but something about the Dorking keeps drawing me in.

Right now I have three breeds of chicken I purchased to help me get used to having them since I've had no experience in this field whatsoever: 4 Australorps, 3 Barred Rocks and 3 Silkies. I was able to acquire them locally rather than ordering online and they've supplied me with hours of joy while I learn how to be a "chicken lady". I had considered raising exclusively Barred Rocks, as there are a few decent breeders of them nearby, but....there's just something about the Dorking.

I notice that you are in Arizona. I live in north Louisiana and it's hot in summer. I considered White Dorkings for a while and changed my mind. I don't believer they can handle the heat as well as the White Rocks. Also, there is a wonderful thread on here about the Marraduna Basques. Heat loving, friendly, very hatchable and just an all round good bird. Check them out.