Faverolles Thread

[BWKatz]

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Just too funny.

 

[thechickonthehill]

I have a question for someone about Faverolles colors. I have seen pictures of "Ermine" Faverolles.

What is the difference between Ermine and Columbian? The Ermine Favs look like they have the same color pattern as Light Brahmas, which I thought was a Columbian color pattern. Can someone please enlighten poor ignorant me?

 

[faverolles]

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Columbian and Ermine are the same thing. They started calling them Ermine in England and we continued it here. In reality when you breed a true Ermine to Ermine you should get 50% Ermine, 25% white and 25% black. I believe I saw this in Fred Jeffery's book. In England when you breed Ermine to Ermine you get just Ermines.
Dick

 

[thechickonthehill]

Columbian and Ermine are the same thing. They started calling them Ermine in England and we continued it here. In reality when you breed a true Ermine to Ermine you should get 50% Ermine, 25% white and 25% black. I believe I saw this in Fred Jeffery's book. In England when you breed Ermine to Ermine you get just Ermines.
Dick

Thanks Dick! I will add this info to my color factoid file.

 

[faverolles]

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Right now I'm working on the large lavender salmon Faverolles and the large lavender Faverolles. Next year I'll be starting to work on the bantams, again, lavender salmons and lavenders. What other breeds are you working on.
Dick

I have Lavender Orps, Cochins and d'Uccles, and I'm starting out with the bantams. I have the Cochins and d'Uccles in with the Favs, so it's all a toss-up right now, and we'll see what we get for shape. I'll likely pull the Cochins as soon as I move my Golden Lakenvelders, whom I've been trying to sell. I'm starting to think I should make an Ermine Lakenvelder instead...perhaps this is a sign (I'm just a bit batty and see projects everywhere I look!)...

I only have the LF Faverolles in pullets too young to lay, who've been sold for months but the owner hasn't come to get them. I have been feeding them forever, and the original $20 purchase is not looking profitable at all...It's made me consider just refunding her, but she's a friend of sorts.

Can anyone give me a rough estimate of what the genotype ought to look like for a 'normal' Salmon Faverolles? I've seen various estimates and understand there are possible differences.

" Genotype" means its actual genetic make up." Phenotype" means the way it looks. Salmon as in Faverolles. This is generally a silver wheaten, which tends toward Ap and Mh and sometimes di+. They are a darker form than one would want for true silver wheaten. The various lines of salmon Faverolles vary widely. The standard seems to call for a heterozygote in the male as well which makes a true breeding line impossible to achieve. The best lines I have seen, whether lighter or darker, tend to breed true and the males match the females. I will list the genes in various lines, of which many seem to be segregating from line to line. eWh, S, Ap, ap+ Mh, mh+,Di/di+. The standard description of the male per APA would be eWh/eWh S/S Ap/ap+ Mh/mh+ Di/Di. The hen though seems to be described to allow for some viability, so that she is genomically the same as the rooster, but could be homozygous for any of the genes the rooster is heterozygous for.The correct name for this variety is Mahogany Silver Wheaten.
This information is according to Brian Reeder in his book " An Introduction to Color Forms of the Domestic Fowl".
Dick

 

[thechickonthehill]

Quote:
I have Lavender Orps, Cochins and d'Uccles, and I'm starting out with the bantams. I have the Cochins and d'Uccles in with the Favs, so it's all a toss-up right now, and we'll see what we get for shape. I'll likely pull the Cochins as soon as I move my Golden Lakenvelders, whom I've been trying to sell. I'm starting to think I should make an Ermine Lakenvelder instead...perhaps this is a sign (I'm just a bit batty and see projects everywhere I look!)...

I only have the LF Faverolles in pullets too young to lay, who've been sold for months but the owner hasn't come to get them. I have been feeding them forever, and the original $20 purchase is not looking profitable at all...It's made me consider just refunding her, but she's a friend of sorts.

Can anyone give me a rough estimate of what the genotype ought to look like for a 'normal' Salmon Faverolles? I've seen various estimates and understand there are possible differences.

" Genotype" means its actual genetic make up." Phenotype" means the way it looks. Salmon as in Faverolles. This is generally a silver wheaten, which tends toward Ap and Mh and sometimes di+. They are a darker form than one would want for true silver wheaten. The various lines of salmon Faverolles vary widely. The standard seems to call for a heterozygote in the male as well which makes a true breeding line impossible to achieve. The best lines I have seen, whether lighter or darker, tend to breed true and the males match the females. I will list the genes in various lines, of which many seem to be segregating from line to line. eWh, S, Ap, ap+ Mh, mh+,Di/di+. The standard description of the male per APA would be eWh/eWh S/S Ap/ap+ Mh/mh+ Di/Di. The hen though seems to be described to allow for some viability, so that she is genomically the same as the rooster, but could be homozygous for any of the genes the rooster is heterozygous for.The correct name for this variety is Mahogany Silver Wheaten.
This information is according to Brian Reeder in his book " An Introduction to Color Forms of the Domestic Fowl".
Dick

. . . at least I have chanced upon a hobby that will keep me occupied for the rest of my life. I can see it now "Chicken Breeding - the best cure for Alzheimer's"

 

[GypsyChic]

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Henrys got some gorgeous birds! I'm also working on lavenders, and my first 'visual' lav hen (09 hatch) is now laying, so fingers crossed. I also have white, splash, black and barred bantam Favs. Of course the Barrd program is still very much a "project" like my lavenders. I've hatched 2 visual lavender chicks from a mixed pro-pen so far, and what *I CALL* a "lavender splash" hen (also 09 hatch) she's showing lav on white in splash pattern. I'm just now able to kinda catch up on this thread, and am interested in learning more about some of the other BYC'rs projects and progress with colors.

Henry, can you update with some genetic info or pics? Will be sending you a PM shortly

Misty
Edited to correct spelling and my usual 'flub-ups'

 

[keesmom]

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So what did he consider a true ermine then? What makes it different from any other columbian?

 

[Rock N' Faverolles]

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Actually the colors Light, Columbian, and Ermine get mixed up. It depends on the breed. Ermine on any breed is the same however, the same with columbians. Before I confuse you further, let me explain. Ermine is different than columbian in that the saddle on ermines lack the black stipes. Columbians on any breed have black striping in the saddle. Light is more confusing because Light Sussex is refering to the Ermine color, and Light Brahmas refer to the columbian color. (although the columbian color name didn't come around until long after the light brahmas). If I confused anyone, let me know and I'll try to restate it more clearly.

David

 

[comerspoultry]

Rock N' Faverolles :

Quote:
Actually the colors Light, Columbian, and Ermine get mixed up. It depends on the breed. Ermine on any breed is the same however, the same with columbians. Before I confuse you further, let me explain. Ermine is different than columbian in that the saddle on ermines lack the black stipes. Columbians on any breed have black striping in the saddle. Light is more confusing because Light Sussex is refering to the Ermine color, and Light Brahmas refer to the columbian color. (although the columbian color name didn't come around until long after the light brahmas). If I confused anyone, let me know and I'll try to restate it more clearly.

David

I understand. Good luck with the Ermine. Not even going to attempt it. LOL But the sure are pretty.​