Faverolles Thread

[EweSheep]

Peter, I know you are upset.....

Those pullets were the darkest I've seen but I've seen darker hues, closer to a Mahogany which Dick sent me an email regarding to Mahoganies several years ago (as he calls them "Sports") and I got an email from a lady who has a Mahogany Faverolle hen for sale. She was dark on top and cream chest. Here is her picture:

She came directly from Sandhill Preservation. As Dick mentioned, she is NOT the best specimen of a Mahogany but close.

I crossed the Mahogany LF male to the Salmon Fav bantams, to make some Mahogany Faverolle bantams, and got these:
F1 crosses

If you can please re read my post, IFthey would have been any darker, they would have been Mahoganies from the Sandhill Preservation examples I have. I did have some Mahogany Faverolle LF ordered twice from Sandhill and I was not pleased with them at ALL.

I thanked Dick for helping me out with the Mahogany Faverolle bantam project but it was not in the best interest producing too many inferior birds from Sandhill to USE for the bantams. The quality was not that great in the F1 and F2.....it really sucks! Then I found the Blue Salmons to be very pretty!!!!!!!

I know Mahoganies are not supposed to look like that but we are still learning about the new colored breeds popping up. I've got some Catalupa Farm lines that had the dark "sport" girls, almost looks like the hen pictured above, and they were DARK, like dark tan in color with little penciling in the feathers. They had cream colored chests and shanks and featherings and huge beards. Just beautiful.

Again I am sorry to offend you, Peter, it is not my intention to do so. I just be quiet now.

 

[pfmerlin]

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[Cloverleaf Farm]

wicked weezer, Peter you crack me up!

I am mesmerized by that beard on that '02 pullet, and the lacing around her neck is stunning, but I totally see what you are saying about breast color. Also, just to get an opinion/clarification from you, make sure I'm understading something you had said before - too much black in the tail, right?

 

[destiny_56085]

I've been a lurker on this thread for the last year now. I'm still trying to learn and get started with this breed. I got my start from Jaynie Knight and she got her birds from Leisha. I started out with 14 cockerels and 12 pullets that were hatched last March/April. I've narrowed it down to the top 2 cockerels and 8 pullets now. I showed them at 2 of the fall shows and am more confused than ever. They placed almost exactly opposite from 1 show to the other. 1 judge liked the 1 cockerel the best and only placed the pullets with the washed out look. The other judge liked the other, smaller cockerel and placed the pullets with the darker coloration. I culled for small beards, little foot feathering, toe spacing, combs, and coloration. A couple of the pullets had more smutty feathers on the chest. The larger of the cockerels that I kept back has just a bit of white just below the chin too but he had better body type. Wings all looked ok to me.... Is there anything else I should be watching for? Any comments or suggestions are welcome. Just starting to hatch eggs out of them and I want to know if I should be culling for anything else.

PS.... when I took these pics, it was in the single digits above 0 here. Actual temps have been as low as -25 with much lower windchills here so far. My coops aren't heated so please excuse the combs on the poor guys.

 

[hcammack]

Quote:
Looks like your off to a very good start! Leisha's line of bantams in very nice.

I would say keep culling very hard for the things that you have already listed. Just read the standard and look over each bird individually and find what you do and do not like about them. You could do some pair breeding as well to use one of the males that has a trait that counter acts the hen you are breeding him too. I know that Leisha does small mating of either pairs of trio I believe.

The things I would watch out for on your hens is even salmon color they should be even color from head to tail not parts that are dark salmon and parts that are not.

I also see a hen that has lacing on her body and then has some smuttiness on her wings and no lacing there I am not sure if I would use her.

The males look good I like the one with Mahogany in the wingbows he is nice looking. One thing that I would watch out for is fullness of beard I can see wattles on both your males so cull for smaller wattles/ no wattles as well as fullness of beard.

The beards should also appear as three parts the beard and two muffs.

On the showing front many judges do not know faverolles at all and are just going of their interpretation of the standard. Are you in an area where judges often see Faverolles? On the range between the "pink salmons" and "brown salmon" just look back either is acceptable and shouldn't be counted against a bird type ALWAYS comes first!

Remember I am not an expert by any means I had my salmons for a short time and I have picked up what I told you from listening to Peter, Leisha, and Dick. Hopefully they will come along and give you more helpful and experienced opinons.

I am just saying what I see this may be completely wrong so get ready for different opinions. Also check out the Faverolles Fanciers website if you are interested in getting into the breed the club is a great resource here is our site http://faverollesfanciers.webs.com/ .

Also get ready for Crossroads 2011 its the Faverolles national. In Indianapolis Indiana from 28th of October to the 29th. Its gonna be a big one

Henry

 

[pfmerlin]

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[EweSheep]

Peter, awwwww, you are still a good guy, not bad for a geezer!

Before long, I would be an old geezer myself!

Henry I love this comment! On the showing front many judges do not know faverolles at all and are just going of their interpretation of the standard. Are you in an area where judges often see Faverolles? On the range between the "pink salmons" and "brown salmon" just look back either is acceptable and shouldn't be counted against a bird type ALWAYS comes first! I see that most shows and not only on Faverolles but on Welsummers....it irks me big time!!!!!!!

Why don't they use judges that breeds Faverolles? Like Leisha, Dick and Peter?????? If they don't have the judging cards, at least they can judge the best to their opinion and be open about why they choose one bird over another and what they are looking for. Judging from those original breeders really give the actual APA judges an edgewise and they should LEARN from the breeders themselves that has been around a very long time and VERY knowledgeable. We all know we have these people as wonderful mentors, to abuse them, would be sacrilege and the bond be broken. Certainly we do not want that to happen. Listen and pay attention to them, they are not going to be here forever but their impact would be felt among us.

 

[mame1616]

I spoke to the judge at our Fall Show and he outright admitted he rarely sees Faverolles. I had the only bantams there, so I didn't really care about the rank so much as what he thought. He was very upfront on his lack of experience and first hand knowledge, which I appreciated, and he told me there won't be many judges out there who do know the breed well. I think it IS our responsibility to talk to the judges afterwards and find out what they know and have seen, and educate them a bit, if necessary. (Not that I'd be doing any of that just yet, but someday!) While the onus is on the judges to study the SoP, it's a different thing altogether when standing in front of a breed they may not have seen in many months, or even years - and then what if the birds he/she is looking at are no good? Perhaps I have been lucky never to have spoken with a cranky, defensive judge before, but they are all human like us, and cannot know everything. It's up to those who know the breed intimately to teach them.

 

[Cloverleaf Farm]

Well, for a bit of GOOD news - one of our Fav club members is in the APA judge's apprentice program right now!

 

[GypsyChic]

Quote:
Just a 2cent thought here OR, a DUMBXXX question here, but doesent "form follows function, and beauty follows that"? apply when breeding anything??? Please DO correct me if I'm wrong.