Faverolles Thread

[sandiklaws]

but I have often all but ran to put an egg into the nearest bator if I am excited about a particular breeding beginning to lay.

 

[Bentley]

Actually, you settle shipped eggs in case any bubbles have formed, it allows the air a chance to regroup in the air cell. If you don't you might be fine, but I have candled newly shipped eggs and then re-candled them 24 hours later (I wanted to know why I had to wait), and you can see a difference.

The only problem with this idea is that the air cell at the blunt end of the egg is not just a spot where the air bubbles congregate. When the egg is formed in the oviduct it has no air cell. If you remove a hard shelled egg from the oviduct of a hen it will not have an air cell and as the egg temperature changes and lowers the air cell is formed between the inner and outer membrane of the egg and you can actually hear it 'pop' when that occurs. If the shell membranes stay intact then the air cell will remain at the blunt end of the egg and this is where the chick will make its first pip prior to it pipping through outer shell itself. As the egg loses moisture the air cell will expand but it will do so between these two egg membranes.

So, any loose air bubbles within the fluid of the eggs that might occur during shipment will occur in the albumen itself and it can be seen 'floating' around in the egg as you candle them. While their might be some benefits to letting the eggs 'settle' the idea of the air bubbles recollecting at the top pf the egg and possibly joining the air cell can not occur in an egg that will still hatch. Because, if the air cell is broken out from between the two shell membranes then it will not maintain it position at the blunt end of the egg and therefore the chicks will not able to find the 'floating' air cell as the developing chick fixes its hatching position with the anticipation of the air cell being at the blunt end of the egg. So, regrouping of the air bubbles in the air cell would require the air bubbles to leave the liquid albumen and pass through the inner shell membrane to a previously intact air cell. Biologically this just can't happen. Again, 'settling might have some benefits, but regrouping of the air bubbles into the air cell is not one of the things that should be counted upon occurring.

 

[sandiklaws]

As I said before, they definitely looked different therefore they did change. I don't know exactly why or how they were not the same, but I know settling did something.

 

[thechickonthehill]

This is my favorite girl. She is so FAT.

She's NOT fat! She's fluffy, lol,

. . . and pretty! Although, she looks a bit peeved about something - maybe being called fat.

 

[shesaredroan]

The only problem with this idea is that the air cell at the blunt end of the egg is not just a spot where the air bubbles congregate. When the egg is formed in the oviduct it has no air cell. If you remove a hard shelled egg from the oviduct of a hen it will not have an air cell and as the egg temperature changes and lowers the air cell is formed between the inner and outer membrane of the egg and you can actually hear it 'pop' when that occurs. If the shell membranes stay intact then the air cell will remain at the blunt end of the egg and this is where the chick will make its first pip prior to it pipping through outer shell itself. As the egg loses moisture the air cell will expand but it will do so between these two egg membranes.

So, any loose air bubbles within the fluid of the eggs that might occur during shipment will occur in the albumen itself and it can be seen 'floating' around in the egg as you candle them. While their might be some benefits to letting the eggs 'settle' the idea of the air bubbles recollecting at the top pf the egg and possibly joining the air cell can not occur in an egg that will still hatch. Because, if the air cell is broken out from between the two shell membranes then it will not maintain it position at the blunt end of the egg and therefore the chicks will not able to find the 'floating' air cell as the developing chick fixes its hatching position with the anticipation of the air cell being at the blunt end of the egg. So, regrouping of the air bubbles in the air cell would require the air bubbles to leave the liquid albumen and pass through the inner shell membrane to a previously intact air cell. Biologically this just can't happen. Again, 'settling might have some benefits, but regrouping of the air bubbles into the air cell is not one of the things that should be counted upon occurring.

Thank you Bentley for your information.

Sounds like you've studied the development of eggs. One can never have too much knowledge, so we all appreciate being educated to a deeper level.
I will say I (and everybody else) have better hatch rates when incubating our own backyard eggs. But I continue to order shipped eggs so I can have breeds that are not available locally....plus I feel by getting eggs from established breeders insures a better quality chick.

After joining BYC and spending MANY MANY hours reading and meeting other 'chicken people', I'm no longer satisfied with the hatchery chicks sold at local feed stores, plus hatching in my own 'bator is SO much more fun.
Thanks again for sharing your knowledge.

 

[sandiklaws]

Ever heard of osmosis? The air can transfer through the membrane, or the shell of the egg if it gets absorbed into the fluid of the egg. Having kept aquariums for decades I can tell you air does get absorbed into the water column if it gets trapped- and if you have a tank with Co2 and a bubble counter, you can watch the bubbles quickly shrink as they climb the Co2 ladder. You can see for yourself here:

Also if the membrane is damaged, it can heal if the egg is not moved during the first 48 hours of incubation. I believe the idea with resting shipped eggs is to give the air bubbles caused by disruption a chance to form a larger bubble, which is then absorbed into the fluid of the egg and can then be gassed out. All I know is I have candled eggs that I just got in the mail and they are full of tiny bubbles, rest them for 24 hours and they have a small bubble that is at the top of the egg. Candle the same egg in 3 days to check for development and that bubble is gone. Try it for yourself. This is a link with a neat school project demonstrating osmosis using eggs.

http://c-lab.co.uk/default.aspx?id=9&projectid=56

 

[shesaredroan]

Ever heard of osmosis? The air can transfer through the membrane, or the shell of the egg if it gets absorbed into the fluid of the egg. Having kept aquariums for decades I can tell you air does get absorbed into the water column if it gets trapped- and if you have a tank with Co2 and a bubble counter, you can watch the bubbles quickly shrink as they climb the Co2 ladder. You can see for yourself here:

Also if the membrane is damaged, it can heal if the egg is not moved during the first 48 hours of incubation. I believe the idea with resting shipped eggs is to give the air bubbles caused by disruption a chance to form a larger bubble, which is then absorbed into the fluid of the egg and can then be gassed out. All I know is I have candled eggs that I just got in the mail and they are full of tiny bubbles, rest them for 24 hours and they have a small bubble that is at the top of the egg. Candle the same egg in 3 days to check for development and that bubble is gone. Try it for yourself. This is a link with a neat school project demonstrating osmosis using eggs.

http://c-lab.co.uk/default.aspx?id=9&projectid=56

Sandiklaws,
Checked out both web sites.
This info is so interesting!!! Wish my high school/college science classes had been this much fun.
And YES.....a horse is a horse, of course of course..da da da ta da ta da (can't remember all the words now, used to be able to sing it word for word)....talk to Mr Ed....my favorite show when I was a kid. Might be why I grew up to become an illustration artist with a drafting table like Wilbur's....but mine wasn't in my barn.

 

[Bentley]

Ever heard of osmosis? The air can transfer through the membrane, or the shell of the egg if it gets absorbed into the fluid of the egg. Having kept aquariums for decades I can tell you air does get absorbed into the water column if it gets trapped- and if you have a tank with Co2 and a bubble counter, you can watch the bubbles quickly shrink as they climb the Co2 ladder. You can see for yourself here:

Actually I have 'heard of' the word Osmosis. It is the movement of a solvent or LIQUID through a semipermeable membrane to balance the contents of the solvents or solutions on both sides of the membrane.

Just saying.....

 

[Bentley]

Actually I have 'heard of' the word Osmosis. It is the movement of a solvent or LIQUID through a semipermeable membrane to balance the contents of the solvents or solutions on both sides of the membrane.

Just saying.....

As I was saying, there may be some benefits of letting eggs 'settle' but the reconnection of the air bubbles into the air cell is not one of them. Also, every time a hatching egg undergoes a temperature change, embryo mortality increases, every day after the egg is laid, embryo mortality goes up so efforts to try and minimize these are always encouraged.

Sandiklaws,
Checked out both web sites.
This info is so interesting!!! Wish my high school/college science classes had been this much fun.
And YES.....a horse is a horse, of course of course..da da da ta da ta da (can't remember all the words now, used to be able to sing it word for word)....talk to Mr Ed....my favorite show when I was a kid. Might be why I grew up to become an illustration artist with a drafting table like Wilbur's....but mine wasn't in my barn.

Ever heard of osmosis? The air can transfer through the membrane, or the shell of the egg if it gets absorbed into the fluid of the egg. Having kept aquariums for decades I can tell you air does get absorbed into the water column if it gets trapped- and if you have a tank with Co2 and a bubble counter, you can watch the bubbles quickly shrink as they climb the Co2 ladder. You can see for yourself here:

Also if the membrane is damaged, it can heal if the egg is not moved during the first 48 hours of incubation. I believe the idea with resting shipped eggs is to give the air bubbles caused by disruption a chance to form a larger bubble, which is then absorbed into the fluid of the egg and can then be gassed out. All I know is I have candled eggs that I just got in the mail and they are full of tiny bubbles, rest them for 24 hours and they have a small bubble that is at the top of the egg. Candle the same egg in 3 days to check for development and that bubble is gone. Try it for yourself. This is a link with a neat school project demonstrating osmosis using eggs.

http://c-lab.co.uk/default.aspx?id=9&projectid=56

 

[Cloverleaf Farm]

OK guys, let's just say "to each their own way" and be done with it. Thanks for everyone's input.